doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com What is this Shotgun?

I've been reffered here by someone over at Guns and Ammo. They told me to post in here and ask for Raimey Ellensburg.

My father recently passed and though I really know nothing about guns, my brother and I split the guns between us. I took his shotgun. I used to own a Home protector myself so I was fine with having another shotgun. My question is though, I have never seen a shotgun like this before. My uncle referred me to Guns and Ammo to find out so here I am.

The barrel has the markings, "Simson, Suhl (Thuringen)." Made in germany. "Special Gewehr Lauf-Stahl SG1"
There is what seems to be a stamp or brand on the barrel that say Paul Jaeger, Jenkintown PA

I have a quite a bit of pics so instead of uploading each URL I'll just leave the URL to the album online

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27723091@N02/with/6022175246/

I can send more if needed. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

Images of the flats will give the year but the sporting weapon is a post WWII sourced from the craftsmen at Suhl. Simson, like may of the pre-WWII makers, was just a shell or used as a tradename with B�Hag being one of the concerns. In the 1930s the Nazis took control of the Simson facility. The double has overhanging scears, has side cocking indicators and wears the outstanding quality stamp. The tubes are of the Russian 4 Ring IZH 50A steel. Paul Jaeger was related to the Suhl Jaegers, which were business partners with Simson and possibly related. Paul Jaeger arrived in the U.S. of A. in 1929 and I believe he was born in the U.S. of A. But I don't know when his brother Kurt Jaeger arrived. Their father, Franz Jaeger had a business here and filed gun related patents around the turn of the 20th Century. Franz Jaeger met his wife in NY City was the grandfather of Mr. Dietrich Apel, who has made a huge contribution/effort to the knowledge of German sporting weapons here in the U.S. of A. I am curious how Paul Jaeger, who was purely a firearms merchant in this case, sourced the longarm. Maybe it passed thru Zurich in travelling to the U.S. of A. Email me an image of the flats and I'll post it for you.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hey Raimey,
your deepth of knowledge is amazing. When are you going to write an Almanac or book? I will surely purchase 2.

Regards,

Doug

Hi Doug,

as Raimey already pointed out: it's a post WWII gun. There will be a date code on the barrel flats. As it has the Q1 mark representing outstanding quality (Raimey mentioned this already), the gun was made after 1960. Check this out:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCtezeichen_%28DDR%29

No English version, unfortunately, so a translation of the most interesting facts:

Q1 (since the early 60s) and �S� (until 1960) = superior quality over the average level of the world market
1 = good quality on the average level of the world market
2 = sufficient quality; adequate but below world market level

And here's the guy who probably made your gun:

And here�s the guy who made your gun:

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/postersgdr/quality.jpg



Wording is: �Quality � you have my word!�
(A GDR propaganda poster for the XI. party congress of the GDR's communist party).

Regards

Martin

Doug,

There was a very long discussion about Simson some years back. Their pre-WWII guns are highly thought of. The Nazi's took over the firm. After the war they continued to make quality, but the old management was gone.

You might enjoy reading this discussion. Again, Raimey shines...

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110216

A member produced a document about their history. If anyone is interested, I will load on my website...

Pete

Wow thank you so much for the info. When you look at the gun, you are just blown away. It just looks valuable. I added the pictures you requested to the gallery. I hope they are what you are looking for.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27723091@N02/sets/72157627260941539/

How about that a 20 bore 70mm chamber from January of 1969. Interesting that it doesn't wear the Simson triangles. I think it was a year earlier that all the craftsmen/craftswomen were wadded up under VEB Ernst-Thalmann-Suhl. The ones with the term Awtowelo(AWO)(ABTO BELO - Motorcyle in Russian?) pique my interest. Need to apply a bit of lubricant. Do the ejectors work?


Simson with S.A.G.(Sowietische Aktien Gesellschaft) Awtowelo stamp, Staatliche Aktiengesellschaft Awtowelo Werk vormals Simson & Co; Suhl (Th�r.) from March 5th, 1947 till January 1968.


Simson & Co. S.A.G.(Sowietische Aktien Gesellschaft) Awtowelo from 1951 with 3 Ring Krupp steel tubes.

A kind soul sent this interesting ref. to a 1983 Simson double celebrating the 600k mark and possible there was a group of 60 with the same number:

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3423192



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

yeah the ejectors work great

so whats the verdict experts?