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Forums10
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
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The 12g shotgun probably wounds more game every year than all the other gauges combined. It has also been said that over the period of man's existence more people have died at Home than on all the Battlefields of the world combined. Now both of these "Statistics" are likely true. As to having any practical use both are also equally Useless as neither account for any of the Whys & Wherefores. No more than I would consider a battlefield in time of war to be safer than my home would I consider a 12 ga to be the least effective & efficient of all the gauges. A hospital is the 2nd most likely place to die & most automobile accidental deaths occur within 15 miles of Home. Rest assured though even if you travel from home by more than 25 miles, never return & never set up another permanent place of residence & never under any circumstances enter a hospital, you still will not gain immortality. Likewise put both the .410 & 12ga on an equal footing as to amount & conditions of use & a quick reversal of those wound statistics will be noted.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Miller, The wounding comes in when you shoot any gun outside of either it's useful range or your own competency range. I've found that out to 25, and even 30 yards with a modified choke, the .410 does an excellent job. After 30 yards, it's not so good. The same goes for a 12 gauge, after 40 yards the average shooter starts wounding more game. Steve
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Miller, Arguements against the use of the .410 for hunting go something like this: 'A .410 is a wounding weapon' 'it's unethical to use a .410 because it's a wounding weapon'. The inferrence is, therefore, anyone using a .410 to hunt is unethical.
The anecdotal reference to 12g guns wounding more game than all other gauges combined, indeed has value. It points out that people argueing against the .410 based on what is ethical, ignore actual performance of the 12g itself. The reality is that the average gunner is a low average clean killer. Even people known as "good shots" or "ethical hunters" are more often than not, no where near 100% clean killers with a 12g.
I no more believe a person hunting roosters with a .410 is a less ethical hunter than one using a 12g, than I believe a person using a bow and arrow to hunt deer or elk is less ethical than someone using a rifle. Was Howard Hill or Fred Bear less ethical than Elmer Keith, based on their choice of weapons? Was Askins less ethical than Keith for shooting all that game with a .270?
Last edited by Chuck H; 07/20/11 02:25 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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If the 12 Ga. is a wounding shell, could it just be a numbers game. Probably more of them out in the field with a truck load more shots fired than all other gauges/calibers combined. Aren't the worst shots of the bunch, newbie kids, steered towards .410's, maybe.
Last edited by craigd; 07/20/11 02:38 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Posts: 12,743 |
Understand, I was not condemning the responsible use of a .410, only the meaningless statistics. Looks like craigd understood, I just thought my way of saying it was a little more dramatic. To be meaningful the statistics would have to be more on the order of a % of game wounded in relation to those killed cleanly.
Bottom line is Chuck, I do not believe a person is unethical if they use either a 12ga or a .410, as long as they use them wisely & understand the limits of either.
Again ""IF"" you put .410's into the hands of as many shooters as are now using 12's & having the same ethics you woulld indeed find your statistics would not hold up. The 12ga ""IS"" after all the more efficient of the two.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,850
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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In his book "Shotguns by Keith" Elmer said that 410's were the preferred shotgun of poachers. Well, I don't agree with Elmer. The 410 in the skill hands of my Dad was deadly. Dad shot 7 pheasants with 8 shots with a 410 once and didn't cripple any. I could never match my Dad with a shotgun so I use either a 10 bore or a 12 bore. It's not that bushel of shot I throw at them but rather I need that extra margin of time the bigger bores give me.
Practice safe eating. Always use a condiment.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Understand, I was not condemning the responsible use of a .410, only the meaningless statistics. Looks like craigd understood, I just thought my way of saying it was a little more dramatic. To be meaningful the statistics would have to be more on the order of a % of game wounded in relation to those killed cleanly.
Bottom line is Chuck, I do not believe a person is unethical if they use either a 12ga or a .410, as long as they use them wisely & understand the limits of either.
Again ""IF"" you put .410's into the hands of as many shooters as are now using 12's & having the same ethics you woulld indeed find your statistics would not hold up. The 12ga ""IS"" after all the more efficient of the two.
Miller, Agreed, no arguement.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I saw a picture of an arrow through a pheasant, not too pleasant of a way to dispatch game, I might add, but he said he shot it on the ground with his bow. I still dont get it; shoot pheasants with a 22 on the ground, what kind of hunting is that?
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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treblig1958, Ground swatting with a 22, that be called meat hunting. Steve A lot of Texans would disagree with me, but hunting deer at a feeder is nothing more than meat hunting.
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
A .410 makes a good squirrel gun
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