March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
7 members (Researcher, Ian Forrester, Jimmy W, damascus, Roundsworth, 1 invisible), 660 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,376
Posts544,025
Members14,391
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Originally Posted By: Chuck
The 12g shotgun probably wounds more game every year than all the other gauges combined.

It has also been said that over the period of man's existence more people have died at Home than on all the Battlefields of the world combined.

Now both of these "Statistics" are likely true. As to having any practical use both are also equally Useless as neither account for any of the Whys & Wherefores.

No more than I would consider a battlefield in time of war to be safer than my home would I consider a 12 ga to be the least effective & efficient of all the gauges.

A hospital is the 2nd most likely place to die & most automobile accidental deaths occur within 15 miles of Home. Rest assured though even if you travel from home by more than 25 miles, never return & never set up another permanent place of residence & never under any circumstances enter a hospital, you still will not gain immortality.

Likewise put both the .410 & 12ga on an equal footing as to amount & conditions of use & a quick reversal of those wound statistics will be noted.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Miller,
The wounding comes in when you shoot any gun outside of either it's useful range or your own competency range. I've found that out to 25, and even 30 yards with a modified choke, the .410 does an excellent job. After 30 yards, it's not so good. The same goes for a 12 gauge, after 40 yards the average shooter starts wounding more game.
Steve


Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879
Likes: 15
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879
Likes: 15
Miller,
Arguements against the use of the .410 for hunting go something like this: 'A .410 is a wounding weapon' 'it's unethical to use a .410 because it's a wounding weapon'. The inferrence is, therefore, anyone using a .410 to hunt is unethical.

The anecdotal reference to 12g guns wounding more game than all other gauges combined, indeed has value. It points out that people argueing against the .410 based on what is ethical, ignore actual performance of the 12g itself. The reality is that the average gunner is a low average clean killer. Even people known as "good shots" or "ethical hunters" are more often than not, no where near 100% clean killers with a 12g.

I no more believe a person hunting roosters with a .410 is a less ethical hunter than one using a 12g, than I believe a person using a bow and arrow to hunt deer or elk is less ethical than someone using a rifle. Was Howard Hill or Fred Bear less ethical than Elmer Keith, based on their choice of weapons? Was Askins less ethical than Keith for shooting all that game with a .270?

Last edited by Chuck H; 07/20/11 02:25 AM.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 204
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 204
If the 12 Ga. is a wounding shell, could it just be a numbers game. Probably more of them out in the field with a truck load more shots fired than all other gauges/calibers combined. Aren't the worst shots of the bunch, newbie kids, steered towards .410's, maybe.

Last edited by craigd; 07/20/11 02:38 AM.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Understand, I was not condemning the responsible use of a .410, only the meaningless statistics. Looks like craigd understood, I just thought my way of saying it was a little more dramatic.
To be meaningful the statistics would have to be more on the order of a % of game wounded in relation to those killed cleanly.

Bottom line is Chuck, I do not believe a person is unethical if they use either a 12ga or a .410, as long as they use them wisely & understand the limits of either.

Again ""IF"" you put .410's into the hands of as many shooters as are now using 12's & having the same ethics you woulld indeed find your statistics would not hold up. The 12ga ""IS"" after all the more efficient of the two.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,850
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,850
In his book "Shotguns by Keith" Elmer said that 410's were the preferred shotgun of poachers. Well, I don't agree with Elmer. The 410 in the skill hands of my Dad was deadly. Dad shot 7 pheasants with 8 shots with a 410 once and didn't cripple any. I could never match my Dad with a shotgun so I use either a 10 bore or a 12 bore. It's not that bushel of shot I throw at them but rather I need that extra margin of time the bigger bores give me.


Practice safe eating. Always use a condiment.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879
Likes: 15
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
Understand, I was not condemning the responsible use of a .410, only the meaningless statistics. Looks like craigd understood, I just thought my way of saying it was a little more dramatic.
To be meaningful the statistics would have to be more on the order of a % of game wounded in relation to those killed cleanly.

Bottom line is Chuck, I do not believe a person is unethical if they use either a 12ga or a .410, as long as they use them wisely & understand the limits of either.

Again ""IF"" you put .410's into the hands of as many shooters as are now using 12's & having the same ethics you woulld indeed find your statistics would not hold up. The 12ga ""IS"" after all the more efficient of the two.



Miller,
Agreed, no arguement.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
I saw a picture of an arrow through a pheasant, not too pleasant of a way to dispatch game, I might add, but he said he shot it on the ground with his bow. I still dont get it; shoot pheasants with a 22 on the ground, what kind of hunting is that?

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
treblig1958,
Ground swatting with a 22, that be called meat hunting.
Steve
A lot of Texans would disagree with me, but hunting deer at a feeder is nothing more than meat hunting.


Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
A .410 makes a good squirrel gun

Page 4 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.080s Queries: 35 (0.057s) Memory: 0.8546 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 15:45:05 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS