doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Choke in a Bird Gun

Back when Sir Ralph was writing, anything smaller than a 12 was pretty much a toy. But a modern smallbore is a very different tool, and modern ammunition is also significantly better. We need to remember that what we think of as the modern 12 didn't really evolve until the 1920's, with the advent of the Super-X load.

As far as driven game goes, back when Sir Ralph wrote, those birds were not particularly long shots. Mostly under 30 yards. The mania for really tall driven birds is a relatively modern phenomenon.

If the first shot is long, you take it with the tight barrel (assuming double triggers). If you wound the bird, you still follow up with the open barrel. You might get lucky and hit the head, break a wing, or otherwise put a pellet somewhere vital. If you're assuming that your first shots are always going to be long, then you should set yourself up with tight chokes in both barrels. But I'd rather set myself up with more open chokes in both barrels, because I've found that I don't often take a first shot beyond 30 yards. Shooters are well advised to prepare for the shots they actually get most often, and are capable of making.

It is also noted that for "Driven" birds Burrrard recommended both bbls bored the same. He more or less "Conceded" that different chokes might have a use in "Rough" shooting.

His recommended choke was the � choke. He went to great lengths to show that the allowable "Error of Aim" of this mild choke was only an inch or so different than the Cyl bore & to show how it resulted in much better uniformity of pattern, elinating most of the inherrant faults of the cyl. This choke with the standard British load of 1 1/16oz #7 he felt was usable on all species of birds shot on Driven shoots out to 40yds.

It is equally noted that at the time of Burrard's writing the normal shell was put up with card & felt wadding & closed with a top wad & roll crimp. ""IF"" it can be showed that the modern shell has elimated all the problems associated with the cyl bore & that it will pattern essentially like the older shells with a "Mild" choke then it would give equal performance, which is very good indeed.

The assumption that most have made that the cyl., or the more open barrel, is used first isn't a valid assumption, either. Over the years of dove shooting I have taught myself to take the first incomer farther out than most do, thereby making the tighter chokes more useful, then going for a double on the next incoming bird at much closer range with the open barrel. Even then, I want more than a cylinder because, if you don't get on that second dove before he reaches you, you are then faced with doing a quick 180 and taking him straightaway, which requires some choke, IMO.

Walk up shooting is entirely different.

SRH

The gun I use the most is a 16 Ga. SxS choked Imp. cyl. and modified. The path to obtain my favorite load/choke combinations was to pattern each barrel and each load at the distances I shoot. I also consider the dog (pointer or flusher) that I hunt behind and flushers on average get a slightly tighter pattern. To maintain the same approximate shot count and distribution, the tighter pattern gets 1/8 oz. more shot and either 1/2 or 1 size larger pellet size. One of my favorite loads that pattern cylinder has card and fiber wads and soft lead shot. I have never needed a full choke, but if in the future a full choke is needed, I'm sure that hard shot, buffer and a full shot cup will do the Job.

I can't think of a fixed choke gun I own that I've intentionally openned the choke on other than one gun I've moved the pattern on.

I usually chose a gun to hunt with that I think will be effective for the conditions/game. That does bring choke into consideration. But choke is not the top priority in selecting a gun for a field to me. I select the gun based on environmental and hazard condition first (don't wanna trash a good gun), then gauge, then choke. The reason I put gauge in front of choke is pretty obvious to me. I shoot everything from 12g to 410. On a gale force windy blustery day in So. Dakota, with roosters flushing out pretty far, I'm pretty sure a 12g in about any choke tighter than skeet will be more effective than a .410 with a full choke. I did say "more effective" not reach further with adequate density on a pattern board.

Well put, Chuck.

I've intentionally opened the choke on a bunch of guns. Old American doubles, in particular, tend to come pretty tightly choked. That being said, I've been having a lot of fun shooting an untouched Parker Trojan 16ga (chambers still short, although the forcing cones look as if they may have been lengthened) choked M/F. I can see shooting prairie grouse and pheasants with that gun, although I might have to slow my normal shooting speed a bit, but no way can I imagine hunting grouse and woodcock with that gun, unless I were to shoot spreaders. Managed a 22 with it at skeet the other day, and might have done better had I not been trying to see how far out I could break the low single at 5, 6, and 7 with the full choke. Successful at the first two, missed the darned low 7! But I can't imagine eating a grouse or woodcock I hit at normal skeet range (which is a bit longer than the normal range at which I take grouse and woodcock).

. This makes some sense to me. I think coyotes and many other predators are making grouse exceedingly spooky. At least this is what I have seen in the Ottawa Forest. I think the bird dog thing having resemblance to a coyote may be a contributing factor in terms of the very 'spooky' behavior. Who knows for sure!

The wolves haven't eaten all the coyotes in the Ottawa, Buzz??

Larry: That sounds almost like cannibalism. Something is making the Ottawa grouse spooky. Maybe it is the most efficient predator of all.....man.