doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Choke in a Bird Gun

Buzz, If that's what Foster says, then I have to believe it.
Where I hunt grouse, you'd be lucky to see a grouse at that distance.

Pete

Tom Kelly, author of the Tenth Legion, the bible of the turkey hunting cult, wrote in the TL that he avoids all arguments of which shot size is best-4s or 6s-by stating that whatever he is shooting is all the hardware store had at the time he bought shells. Why do I shoot Cyl and IM in one of my doubles? That's all it had in it when I bought it.

I think distance is a tough thing for a hunter to guesstimate or perceive while perusing a woods. Likewise, I don't believe wide open choke remedies poor gun fit, technique and ability.

So long as you're centering your targets, tight chokes make a break or a kill more certain at any range. However a wider spread with good pattern coverage will certainly improve your chances on a close target or in a brushy game shot situation, or when you aren't quite centering the target.

I shoot IC and Mod at quail and 1st season doves and move up to M&F for ducks and 2nd season doves. "Kick'em-up" released quail are best shot with Cyl choke to prevent the creation of quail hash, and because the poor little things may not stay in the air long enough to get 'out there'. Turkeys IMHO require full chokes and a personal knowledge of just where your gun puts the pattern*...Geo


*I spent one turkey season after buying a custom "turkey choke" that shot low shooting the beards off of every turkey I shot at.

I've been working with a couple of cylinder bored muzzleloaders lately, and with those I am not so happy with the patterns. I prefer not to use plastic shotcups with my muzzleloaders and stick with more traditional wads. I have since had the barrels in one of these guns jug choked, and the pattern results with traditional cardboard wads are really excellent and comparable to modern shotguns. With my other muzzleloader it would be necessary to use quite heavy (1 1/2 oz. +) shot loads for good patterns, and I have found this to be very uncomfortable. I believe that using modern plastic shotcups makes patterns much better and with my breechloading guns I have had good success with these in cylinder barrels for close shots. But my favorite pheasant choke combination for South Dakota is light modified/improved modified.

I quoted Bob Brister--who had the opportunity to look at a lot of patterns over his long career--in my article. He had very good things to say about cyl patterns at 25 yards. That would be with plastic wads, of course.

Nothing will make up for poor gun fit. However, a wider pattern will do two things: compensate for aiming error, and keep from blowing apart the birds you shoot at very close range. I know for sure that if I threw in woodcock--and I shoot more of those than I do grouse--the average distance for birds I kill, both species combined, would be well under 20 yards.

A performance factor closely related the absence or degree of choke is shot size and load weight (pellet count). The gun I use for woodcock is a 12 bore cyl/skeet and only one bird out of 39 killed last season was unfit for eating, shooting 1 oz. of No. 8 1/2 card wad loads. Some of these birds were shot at ranges more appropriately measured in feet than yards, at times a necessity in very thick cover.

The previous season I started out shooting a factory shot cup 1 1/16 oz No. 7 load with a lot of knicked as well as "shot to dollrags" birds. The difference is the pellet rich fringe of the No. 8 1/2 bore-scrubbed loads vs. the thin fringe/rich core of the cup-protected No. 7 loads,
at the ranges were the birds are shot.

Since average shooters (like me) tend to catch the birds at any range in the outer 10" instead of the inner 20" of the magic 30" circle, high pellet count loads from cylinder bores shine at closer ranges.

I am a little upset with myself for starting this thread because I have great respect for Larry Brown and Michael McIntosh, not only as great outdoors writers, but because I value their opinions on matters of shooting in general. They may very well be correct regarding this issue of cylinder choke as adequate for most upland birds. This being America, however, I felt I should exercise my right to 'freedom of speech' on this issue, and as an experienced upland hunter, felt qualified to question this issue. In the final analysis, I think both Larry and Michael could be right, but I still wonder. For now, I am going to keep a little choke in my right or under barrel until I am thoroughly convinced otherwise. Buzz

Although I have never kept records a gun I shot for several years & always felt I "Hit" s higher percentage of game shot at than any other I ever owned was a Birmingham proofed J P Clabrough & Bros.
Gauge was 12, bbls were 28" damascus, chokes were � choke (.010") in both bbls. Gun wt was 6'14" & it felt neither Clunky nor Whippy, just shot where I was looking. Game birds shot were Quail & some Woodcock. It was also used when I accompanied my Father rabbit hunting with his beagles. Same load was used for each except for shot size. Powder was the original DuPont HyScore (pre 700X). 1oz of ordinary shot was loaded in a Rem Power Piston wad in #8 for the birds & #6 for the rabbits. Load was in the 1100-1125 fps range @ about 8K pressure. It digested quite a few of these with nary a whimper.

The differences of effective pattern spread & game mutilation are not really as large as many would have us believe between a cyl & a "Mild" choke.

I'm with You Buzz, I have not yet been convinced that a mild choke is such a bad thing & feel it makes a gun more "Versatile".

Sooner or later, you may come around . . . but you'll actually have to shoot the Cylinder bore to get there.