doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Choke in a Bird Gun

Michael McIntosh wrote an article entitled 'More Things We Can Do Without' He made the statement: "Choke in gun barrels is all but obsolete". Larry Brown, a prominent member of this forum recently published an article in Pointing Dog Journal entitled 'Are You Overbored?' in which he reiterated similar sentiment as McIntosh and recommended for a Grouse or Quail gun to bore your first barrel cylinder...no choke at all. Keeping in mind that as an average Grouse are shot at approx 23 yards (this was proven in a small older study by William Harnden Foster) and probably quail too, do you agree bird guns in the first barrel should have no choke at all? Personally, I respectfully disagree with these 2 esteemed authors and still like a little choke in my guns.

If Foster was indeed correct that most grouse and quail, we're assuming he was referring to Ruffed Grouse and Bobwhite Quail, are shot at 23 yards, what choke in your right barrel of your bird gun do you think would be most effective at that range? The answer is obviously Cylinder choke. It's really hard to argue with McIntosh and Brown then, isn't it? Obviously, if your bird gun is used for prairie birds or pheasants over big-going Springers a tighter choked gun would be advantageous.

Wild Skies: I understand what you, McIntosh and Larry Brown are saying but ask yourself this. Why do skeet guns have choke as most shots are closer than 25 yards? There are some skeeters who shoot cylinder but I think very few. Reason being....HOLES in the patterns at this range. I think cylinder bore produces holes at distance and therefore cripples. Also all but the lowest pressure shells will tend to blow patterns out even more. Also some shots at grouse and quail are talen at longer yardage than 23 yards where Cylinder IMHO is worthless resulting in crippled game. PS. I figured I was stepping in to dangerous waters challenging shooting gurus....but what the heck.

For hunting over most pointing dogs I carry guns with cylinder and modified.

For hunting over Last Dollar's pointing dogs I pefer 40 thousandths and 45 thousandths.

Best,

Mike

Boy oh boy, you just touched on what I've long believed is a sort of secret hiding in plain sight. Now, I'm just a joe from Wisconsin with nothing like the credentials of the two men you mention in your question. But I long ago came to the same conclusion -- especially if your game, like mine, is mostly ruffed grouse. ANY choke is too much for the right barrel in the grouse woods. Interestingly, I note that a large percentage (though of course not all) of vintage Brit doubles are cylinder choke in the right barrel. The great makers of Britain had this figured out a long time ago. But we (speaking of Yanks like me who constitute the big users of this board) who were raised on a reach-out-and-hit-em-hard-at-40-yards crowbar-gun ethic (be it double or repeater) think there's something wrong with a gun that has no choke. Hence, the prevalent notion of the IC/MOD double as the "ideal" upland configuration. It's certainly not ideal for lots of upland shooting.

I seem to do the best with guns that have some choke; choice for Grouse might be .002/.004. That and longer forcing cones seem to produce most even and productive patterns. As distances increase, a bit more choke is good as with IA & SD Phez, P Chics, etc. For that type of upland bird .010/.020 is about max needed. Agree that .030/.040 is generally overkill and contra-productive.

I'd best most were opened up...

Old English stuff is highly regarded just about everywhere one goes. Even plain BLNE from provincial maker with Birmingham parts will be well made, very long lasting, and easy to hit with. With old Continental European one choked full and fuller I might as well shoot blanks!
With no wild turkey in Europe I thought it was strange but esteemed poster from Slovenia said by the time one unslings ole' betsy the birdie will be far away. I suppose one carrying US "rough style" should tap their foot and whistle "Dixie" before contemplating a shot?

WS1/WS2, or if no M21 is available, then Skeet/Skeet for quail and grouse.

Winchester 21 is very advanced design with single trigger, pg and nicely shaped btfe. It would be especially nice with 28" tubes and open choke combination making foot tapping and whistling before taking a shot unnecessary.