October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online
11 registered (DaveWE, bill schodlatz, Drew Hause, big al1, B. Dudley, Cameron, 1 invisible), 47 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12093 Members
9 Forums
27397 Topics
355278 Posts

Max Online: 286 @ 02/18/13 06:38 PM
Google Ads
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#232696 - 06/17/11 10:53 AM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: JayCee]
JayCee Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 3563
Loc: CHILE
Apropos of the Acier Hercule Trempe and a recent thread where some novel treatment is mentioned, I would like to somewhat clarify what the Trempe
on the Idéal barrels means: The barrels were heated red hot, then submerged into water at 7ºC and after that the interior was sprayed with a powerful
jet of ice cold water to even inside and outside temperatures. This may be easy to do in this day and age but required special efforts from the old mills.
This tempering gave the barrels their final quality.

JC


Edited by JayCee (06/17/11 10:55 AM)
_________________________
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin

Top
#232711 - 06/17/11 03:13 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Geno]
JayCee Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 3563
Loc: CHILE
Hello Geno,

After perusing the 1910 Manufrance Catalogue I tend to agree with you.

The grade 6RE/E appears on page 79 and is called an "Idéal EXCELSIOR".
Description mentions the engraving is special to each gun.

This is added to the description of the model 6RE:

"All parts of the weapon have been carefully checked, and it is only after establishing that the gun is perfection itself that the Directors themselves apply, on the action and the barrels, their special MDF proof mark, certifying that this weapon is a true masterpiece of gun making."

Mark, you did find a special one indeed!

JC
_________________________
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin

Top
#232715 - 06/17/11 04:59 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Mark Dube]
postoak Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1416
Loc: The Lone Star State !
JC thank you for the explanation of "Acier Hercule Trempe" - my little Lunette triggered 16 Ga. has a 5 Palms barrel with this marking.
_________________________
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.



Top
#232735 - 06/17/11 08:18 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Mark Dube]
WildCattle Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 327
Loc: Northern California
Hello Mark,
This is a wonderful Ideal.
It is likely a 6RE/E model.
R means "renforce" i.e. reinforced.
The first "E" is ejector, and the second is Excelsior, i.e a high grade. This is demonstrated by the MDF stamp, meaning that a Director personally checked the gun.
S would mean rifled barrel that this gun does not have.
The wood is way above average...
Congratulations again, I'd love to have one like this.
WC-

Top
#232740 - 06/17/11 08:55 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: WildCattle]
JayCee Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 3563
Loc: CHILE
Hello WC, thanks for your confirmation.

JC
_________________________
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin

Top
#232750 - 06/17/11 11:17 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: WildCattle]
WildCattle Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 327
Loc: Northern California
BTW the S "Supra" barrels were intended primarily for short range shotgunning rather than slug.
In France, it is (was) very common to hunt for rabbits (cotton tail like) which was very often a short range job, especially when ferrets are used.
The rifled barrel would quickly disperse the shot so that the prey would stay edible, even in the 10-20 yard range.
This looks easy, but I must assure you that one must be very fast, as the rabbits are usually in the brush such as blackberry bushes, and run like, well, rabbits...
Hunting rabbit over ferret is a lot of fun...
Another S barrel target would be woodcock hunting, also a short range, fats target job.
Boar hunting was not a big thing back in the 20's as they were few and far between, and would have been hunted with buckshot in most cases.
Best regards,
M-

Top
#232753 - 06/18/11 12:30 AM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Mark Dube]
Geno Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3774
Loc: St.Petersburg/Russia
To compare this is model 6RE made in 1903


_________________________
Geno.

Top
#232792 - 06/18/11 04:23 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Mark Dube]
Northern Bob Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 87
Loc: High Level, Alberta
What an outstanding find, Mark. I'm not sure of the grade of my 1898 20, but it doesn't have the grade stamp on the lug either. It wasn't as high grade as yours and I was guessing it was a 4.

Top
#232795 - 06/18/11 04:39 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Geno]
JayCee Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 3563
Loc: CHILE
Hello Geno,

Beautiful specimen. The engraving with what appear like grapevines is very nice.
Do you have bigger photos?

JC
_________________________
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin

Top
#232807 - 06/18/11 07:55 PM Re: Manufrance Ideal - help with grade etc. [Re: Mark Dube]
LeFusil Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 994
Loc: Utah
Could his gun possibly be a Grade 8? Has ALOT of Grade 8E features. Remember also, it is hard to accurately date a Ideal. Serial numbered parts sat for years on warehouse shelves waiting to be made into guns, parts (i.e. actions & barrels) actually built and numbered in the 1930's...could have acutally been made into a completed gun in the 1960's and later.

Dustin
_________________________

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >



doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2013 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un moderated public forum.