doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com New Toy... Baker Paragon

That's a nice find . I can see why you like it. As for Chain Damascus, I have a 1909 Paragon with chain Damascus. One of my favorite designs.

Well, I had to dig into the safe to get my Paragon #397 out. I wanted to compare the engraving against yours, as far as style. Mine is different on the lock plates with a single retriever on the left lock and a single pointer on the right lock. There is a single quail on the bottom of the receiver just ahead of the trigger guard. There is what I would call the usual pattern on the balls of the barrels and scroll work most everywhere else. The trigger guard has the initials, of I assume the original owner, tastefully engraved in what I would call a Gothic pattern. The barrels are the chain Damascus as well. Sitting right aside of it now, is my "A" grade Baker. It has the same length Damascus barrels as well. I am very surprised at the weight difference. Without going to the scales, the Paragon is very noticeably heavier than the "A". On the lug of the barrel is the markings "D20". Nice gun, you will enjoy it.

Most of the damascus barreled Paragons I've seen are the 3-Iron "Oxford" and occasionally I'll see what looks like a 4-Iron. Now the Chain damascus. I'm guessing there may be a others I haven't seen.

Hmmmm... That brings a question to mind...

The Paragon was built to order, so did Baker outfit a customer's Paragon with their preferred type of damascus barrel? I believe that the 3-Iron was the standard used on this grade of gun. Are these Paragons with "non-standard" damascus types a case of the customer specifying a higher grade of barrels for their gun?

Or did Baker simply fit barrels to the Paragon based on what was in stock?

The 4-Iron Crolle is a higher grade of laminated steel than the 3-Iron and so was more desirable then as well as now. I would guess that the Chain damascus is more desirable now than some others because of its pattern (and possibly strength?). How did it rank during the time these guns were built?

"Quality", strength, cost and desirability are different factors. See http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_22ddqshmdq

Chain damascus was used on mid-grade guns by the U.S. makers, and at least by Ferdinand Drissen's 1897-1898 price sheet was mid-grade in cost also.



The conversion of Belgian francs to U.S. dollars in 1900 was about 5 francs to 1 dollar. The complete charge for the barrels and gunsmithing for '3 band Crolle' was 80 francs or about $16.
In 1900, Jean Lejeune of Nessonvaux listed the following prices for damascus barrels alone: 'Oxford'-16f, 'Boston'-10f ($2), and 'Birmingham'- 8f
In 1914, Arthur Delvaux-Heuve of Nessonvaux offered '3 Band Boston' and 'Star' for 14 francs.

I've got a couple of atypical Paragon patterns up here; special order or just what was on hand impossible to know
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18020839

Considering Paragons were built to order, it seems a reasonable request by the buyer could be made. I know Baker had a sample board of various Damascus patterns, but doubt the buyer got to see it, as I am sure most orders originated at the Dealer level. In general, the Baker Grades were generated by the barrel material type. That said, a knowledgeable buyer might request anything he wanted or knew about. The 1909 Paragon could have been a requested chain Damascus, or it could have been what was in stock. Baker admitted in the period after 1910 all barrel material was becoming harder to get. Unrest in Europe. I have a gun with Homo Tensile steel marked on the top of the barrels and with the Krupp flusstahl marks on the underside. Seems like they were out of Belgian material when it came time to build a gun requiring Homo Tensile, so they used what they had, even though the Krupp was much more expensive.

Certainly wish the Baker production records would magically get unearthed!

I'd love to be able to look up Paragon No. 518 and find its actual build date as well as the ordered specifications. Would love to know who "RHH" was (original owner initials on trigger guard) and where he was from.

But in general, I'd love to just have this Baker Gun & Forging Co. information available.

I know that feeling. Just who is GAB, that is engraved on mine? I wonder if he would still remember the gun? Probably not talking anymore.

From testimonials, etc.

Paragon 552 bought 1-1-1902

Paragon 557 talked about in April,1901

Paragon 572 talked about in May, 1903

All we can do is interpolate from things like this. Your 518 must have been made in 1900 , but we know exact sequences were not followed perfectly.

Congratulatons,Fairly certain this is the gun I called about recently (Arizona)This time I was a day late rather than a dollar short,I was hoping somebody here on the BBS found it....exscuse me, need to go look for a box of tissues.

Sounds like it may have been the same gun Big Oak. Sorry for "stealing" it away.