doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Single pellet clay breaks

Exactly my point, Larry. If guys can run multi-thousand wooden blocks with a .22 (I recall a run of 17K-19K or something like that), I'd think we would see the same type of runs with a 12 gauge shotgun on clay targets.

[quote=eightbore]I'm still not clear on the purpose of the research. Surely, no hunter or top classed competition shooter is interested in one pellet hits. Not to make them intentionally, for sure. But they are likely to be interested in what choke, shot size, and MV will give the highest probability of a hit.

Don does bring up an interesting point, though, if I read him correctly. Does a competition shooter on a long run of hundreds of targets have to worry about factors other than not being "on the target"? Yes, indeed. Dr. J's pattern research shows that a long run is probably getting quite a few single pellet breaks. I think that may be exactly the case. A skeet shooter who has broken 1242 straight is just as likely to have that run broken by a slightly defective load than by "missing the bird". At least that is my opinion. The statistics of the pattern will catch up with him sooner or later. The more he keeps the target in the center of the pattern the lower the probability of a miss via hole (or low pellet count hit). So, good shooting is a factor, but can't totally conquor the statistics.[/quote]

We do seem to be posing many more questions than answers. I suppose the idea that 3 � 4 pellet strikes � of sufficient energy � will reliably break a target may have come from the fact that you rarely pick up an unbroken clay with evidence of more than 4 strikes. However you do pick up loads with evidence of 1 or 2 strike, particularly on trap disciplines. I did once pick up a clay with 7 strikes, but I guess someone was probably using 9�s on an edge on distant target.
Just to add another � not too scientific � experiment to the melting pot. I had 3 very good shots at he ground a few years back and they took on a walk back challenge. They started on a high crossing target with 28g/9�s and walked back. It was amazing that they got back to a point where you could hear the clay being hit without it breaking, yet 1 yard closer it broke consistently. They then changed to 7 � shot which gave them another 5 yards or so � and the same thing happened. The result of the contest was a break at 82 yards using a 36g/4 !!
The point of this observation is not the extreme range you can break a clay at but the narrow margin at which the energy of a pellet runs out. Now I can�t tell you how many 9�s were hitting the target when it stopped breaking but there was sufficient to hear it tinkle on the clay. The point I am trying to make is that if there is insufficient energy in the individual pellets to do damage it doesn�t really matter how many hit the target � it will not break.
John

I'd disagree, Don . . . assuming Dr. Jones is correct about the % of single pellet hits, seeing that we know many of them do not result in broken targets. A "single pellet" hit with a .22, on the other hand, ALWAYS scores as a break.

All this discussion only serves (me) to reinforce my using modified chokes for sporting clay competition. It certainly may be interesting, and I would very much like to see indisputable evidence come out of it, but until it does it will all be totally out of my mind when I compete with my 1 1/8 oz. loads of 7 1/2s and 8s, and tight chokes. I can overcome a whole lot of the "if's" with that combination.

I'd rather miss and learn to make the proper correction, which turns the target to dust, than get chipped targets all day. Until that hard data is forthcoming I'll sure take those chips when they occur, tho' .

I have won my class in several large tournaments over the years by one bird. One bird, out of two hundred. One way you keep your head right is by reminding yourself that if you had not stayed focused on every presentation, and not used the right equipment, you might have been in first or second place loser position. You don't EVER allow yourself to think, "Man, I sure am thankful for all those one pellet breaks." Confidence is everything. Thinking about one pellet breaks is counterproductive, for me. I'm glad Don is willing to do it, because I can't afford to.

Stan

Well said and thought out, Stan. I don't know about trap shooters, but skeet and sporting clays shooters in the highest classes are known to use chokes tighter than used by their more mediocre bretheren. This is especially true in the small gauge events. A .410 with .007 or .008 constriction will reduce a skeet target to dust if well centered. Twelve gauge NSSA competitors often use no constriction to .003 with good results, but some use more for more satisfying breaks.

I am not too sure your theory on shooting clay targets with a .22 will result in 100% breaks holds water. OK - edge on perhaps - but i used to organised competitions at 25m with clay targets hung face forward on wire brackets and a large proportion of the time we just punched hole through them from memory perhaps 15 - 25% of the targets. We ended up with spotters with scopes to record hits. Using battue clays was better as they are more fragile - but still not 100% reliable.
JOhn

I always find discussions of this sort immensely tedious. And I have enjoyed engaging Rocketman a number of times in regard to the silliness of his inertia machine - and more importantly the entire basis of its operation, the assumptions that drive it.

So, anyway, here is the single pellet BS once again. And again the basic assumptions are unsubstantiable and questionable at best for a single (pellet of) reason. And there is no, absolutely NO standardized real world situation that we all shoot in, to which any acquired data, questionable as it would be in each and every way, could be applied in any remotely meaningful way.

"For me, very simply, because I want to know."

So, Rocketman, just what is it that you will know?

The obvious solution to the quandary of rationalizing target losses is easy. Use Brister's (I think it was) idea of full choke - fills a 30" circle at the distance the target is usually taken -

and learn how to shoot


how all y'all doing these days?

Dr.WtS