doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com LC Smith ( I think ) help needed

Sirs, could you please tell me if you think this is the sidelock version, and not the boxlock they offered. The pictures are dark, and I thought I'd take the chance anyway.



thank you.

it says hunter arms co. fulton n.y.on top of rib and is a side lock it appears to be an lc smith. nice buy!

The gun is definitely a side-lock model genuine LC Smith, and the pics are indeed very poor (most likely for a number of reasons); but given that the markings are on the rib and not the barrels, this gun would most likely be a pre-13 model. I hope you didn't buy this gun; as it has been terribly and unprofessionally "restored". Anytime you see a re-blued frame on a vintage double that is not a good sign; and given that the seller did not provide a grade, those could be blued-over Damascus barrels. And although it is a desirable 20-bore, time the gun is properly restored one could probably buy two original 20-bores already in good unaltered condition. I could nit-pick this gun for hours; but you get the point.

Yes I did use the 'buy it now.' Topgun, I did consider that this gun may be re-blued, and I know the wood has been re-done. I'm just hoping against hope someone did not re-blue the reciever and it's dark due to poor picture taking. I hadn't thought it could be a pre-13. That would be even better. I'm a sucker for projects I guess as I'm already several k into a LeFever being re-done. I'll just take this one and send it to folks who know what they're doing, have it done right and get it ready for dove season in Sept.

thanks.

First year production (1907) OO or O grade ! Even with the frame blued and the wrong pad it's a great buy as a shooter. However, have those barrels checked---as Topgun stated they may be Damascus, particularly if it's a OO.

Did Hunter make any Smith guns in 20ga. with damascus barrels?

I'm sure that if you ordered one with Damascus barrels you could get one. Typically the OO grade always had Armor Steel barrels from the begining., The 0 grade first came with Laminated Steel barrels and then London Steel.

There is a 1919 20 ga. that does have Damascus barrels, so anything is possible.

Nice funeral gun! With a 13.5" LOP to a pad I hope that you have short arms (being 6'5" the short LOP jumps out at me). I guess time will tell if the 26" barrels = cut barrels. If you like project guns it looks as if your work is cut out for you!
Steve

They "almost" showed us the Curtis forend latch. They "almost" showed us the barrels. If the gun is really a 20 gauge with barrels that are not ruined, it could be a good project gun. The English Walnut is pretty outrageous, fairly common for low grade Smiths in that era.

Neat, and good luck
Please show us good pictures when you receive the gun.
Should be a great quail and dove gun.
Wonderful buy
If the 13.5 LOP is too short for you, send the gun to me and I will provide it a loving home
Mike

Hello and thanks for the replies thus far. From you guys I've learned that is it a pre-13, possibly 0 or 00 grade and a first year production 20ga. I just got off the phone with the seller and here's the skinny : Serial - 1289 and the "R" which no one has any idea what its for ; It is an 0 grade ; and... London Steel barrels with no dent/dings/bulges/ or pitts ; all the screws are still good and straight, no buggers. The bad : The reciever was blued, which it should not have been, but that can be fixed and well as the shiney re-finish on the stock. I know it's got a short LOP but I will adapt and overcome.

thanks again, redoftx

One last caveat---- unless altered it has 2-1/2" chambers but don't despair--RST makes great shells for short-chambered guns.

You are correct, no one knows what the "R" suffix is for. There has been speculation, but nothing substantial. It would be interesting to take one apart with the "R" and see what might be different from another one. My guess is it could have meant "Repair".
In Brophy/'s book he gives drawings for oversize parts, one is the front trigger plate housing which is a 10-32 thread, and the replacement is a 12-28 thread.

I think it would make a dandy canvas for Ken Hurst to scratch on.

Looks like a hot dipped reblued gun. Be sure to check the barrels and ribs out well. If the barrels do not ring like a bell look for a loose rib.

When you come across a gun like this one look for a reason for such bad pictures. If the seller has other listings see if all the pictures are the same poor quality. All bad, then possible a bad camera or a person who does not know how to take better pictures. If the one gun is the only bad set of pictures then you had better understand the seller takes bad pictures when he does not want you to see the faults of a gun. Same seller had a beater Fox with major issues and his pictures are far better on that one than on this gun.

I bet when you get the gun in hand you will find it is a poorly refinished gun with major issues. Then you need to figure if it can still be saved or needs to be returned. At that price it is worth the gamble, only if the barrels are sound. They alone are worth the selling price. If they are scarp then you have a wall hanger and need to return it asap.

I have handled one 20 ga damascus gun and know of (not heard of) another graded one. Damascus 20's are virtually unheard of.

I think it could be a pretty good buy for a pre-13 20GA.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Well, here she is. Now please be nice but to the trained eye, and there are alot here, there is alot wrong with this thing. The most obvious being the complete bluing job. But here are the positives :

1)Wood to metal fit still okay. The wood re-finish didn't take away too much.

2) Screws still okay

3) Still locks up tight as as vault and lever to the right.

4) Ebony tip on forend still in tact

5) Barrels still ring, no dents/dings

6) Decent figure wood for an 0 grade Smith. The stock is serialed to the gun under the trigger guard.
Here's the specs :
DAC - 1 3/4
DAH - 2 3/8
LOP - 13 5/8 to end of added Pachmayr Pad
Weight - 5lbs 15oz prob. due to almost 1" being cut off the stock

















Anyway, when I get to it, I will have it re-done right. It will always be a re-done gun yes, but it will still shoot.

have a good day. redoftx.

Looks to me like a well spent $400. Congrats.

For what it is worth, I own and finally just read Brophy's book on L.C. Smith's. I actually finished reading it, just last night. According to his book, there were no 20ga. Damascus, L.C. Smiths'. I won't and can't dispute anyone who says they have handled one, all I can say is, it was discussed in his book. That is all I know.......For me that is a shame, I love Damascus.

Well, I have no idea how many; but there is at least one Damascus LC 20-bore and I handled it last April at the Southern Side x Side, a post-13 Field Grade.

Serial # 14788 c.Oct.21,1919 Field Grade 20 ga. with Damascus barrels, but not mine.

In the research that Brophy did, before the age of computers, is remarkable. He made some mistakes, some in the tabulating of the different grades, some in the different types of same grade differences, but again before computers and the internet.
The same holds true in John Houchins book "The Legend Lives", there are mistakes there too, and a lot of it follows Brophy's research.

The thing to remember also, just because you write a book, doesn't mean you know it all. There are just a guide line to follow, and the one thing about L.C. Smiths, never say never.

I handled the same one topgun mentions and the guy who sold it to the current owner only sold it because he has another one that is nicer and graded.

Now if somebody could just show me a Regular frame 20ga or a 20ga hammer gun - that would be something!

Too bad this isn't a damascus 20, but it's still a great buy nonetheless. Nice find!

Well, I am sure glad to find out that there truly are 20ga. Damascus Smith's. You are all correct as well about what is in a book, is not always all there is to it.