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Originally Posted By: ellenbr

Now the load on the tube is 1/2 gram while the cartridge is loaded with 1 gram if I understand it correctly. Was this difference typical?

Kind Regards

Raimey

A closer look at the proofmarks: It says 1/2 g blackpowder and 18g Bl, not BlG! This is the shot load, not the rifle bullet load of 1 g bp behind an about 9g = 150gr lead bullet shown in the catalog! (the bullet weight is from contemporary bullet catalogs) In the rifle load the case was filled to the bullet base with black powder, while the shot case contained powder, a small wad, shot and another wad.

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Originally Posted By: ellenbr
Nice find Axel and one nevers knows considering that some early guns were made to fire both pinfire & central-fire, who knows some craftsman may have developed a means to fire bother Flobert & central-fire?

Such an interchangeability is impossible. Apart from the need for two firing pins, one for the center, the other hittng the rim, the chamber precludes interchangeability: The 9.1x40R had a base diameter of .401", so the .379" base of the .38 Sp family is a loose fit, but the bulged out fireformed cases work at bp pressures. The thin-walled 9mm Flobert rimfire case has a base of only .346"! This would be grossly undersized in a 9.1x40R chamber, resulting not only in split cases, but also in very questionable ignition. It would be about as likely as a rifle with two firing pins to use the .22 Hornet and the .22 Magnum rimfire interchangeably.

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There were number of Flobert 9 mm cartriges, but the chamber shape was complitely different from 9x40R shot&slug center fire cartriges.
First pic is Flobert cartriges

9x40R Center Fire cartriges




Geno.
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Axel, easy with those exclamation marks as I'm just an apprentice and a Southerner is allowed to ask a nieve question from time to time, isn't he? Once again you've succeeded in teaching me something, I think, and I applaud you for it.

Geno, nice effort on your part as you had it right all along.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Originally Posted By: kuduae
It would be about as likely as a rifle with two firing pins to use the .22 Hornet and the .22 Magnum rimfire interchangeably.


Hmmm, I do remember such an arrangement for a firing pin. Just can't recall the gun at the moment....

Pete

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Raimey, if I could get one! Pics are from municion.org

Pete, me too thinking I saw double firing pins before.


Geno.
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Many thanks to all of you.
Another board memeber has offerd me some 9.1X40 cases and i have some .357 max so I should be able to make something up based on all of the help and info you have provided.

As I was looking very closely at the breech face today I discovered that the shot tube was probably converted from rim to center fire. Close inspection reveals that a plug is in the breech where a rim fire pin would be. The barrel also has a small indention at the top for the rim fire. Just as the .22 barrel has.
This work appears very old.
I suppose one other theory could be that when the maker made the breech he provided for either rim or center fire. Any thoughts ? Have any of you seen or heard a conversion or a design to allow for both.

As I look at this it is not something that could be converted back and forth by a user. It seems to me that it would require skill and tools to do so.

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Mike, snap an image, email it to me & I'll post it. I for one would really like to see the standing breech/strikers.

Kind Regards,
Raimey

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Geno,

I found it. The Marlin Model 1892. Also Thompson Contender & NEF had or have that feature. I am sure there were others around.

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Raimey was right insofar as most of these garden guns were built for the 9mm Flobert rimfire. apparently this gun has been rechambered to 9.1x40R and converted from rim- to centerfire. Why? Please consider the proof date, September 1918. WW1 was still going on and civilian ammunition like the 9mm Flobert was largely unavailable. In this situation someone having some reloadable brass, a supply of primers and black powder was at a real advantage. My guess: Someone ordered this gun from one of the small Zella_Mehlis makers, who still had prewar parts in stock, but had it converted to centerfire and rechambered. As a boy, about 1908, my grandfather had a single barrel in 9.1x40R. The gun was either destroyed or liberated in 1945, but I still have the thong-type Berdan decapper and a brass bullet seater. He told me he reloaded his shot cartridges with crumbled newspaper for wadding, a pinch of blackpowder and some shot. He used it to shoot crows, magpies and other small pests around the premises.

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