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Forums10
Topics38,518
Posts545,718
Members14,419
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Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Had a doublegun been built to all the exact same specs as a 21 under any other name than the Big W one would have to pay "Boot" to trade it for a Butt Ugly NID. The design itself is mediocre at best, being mainly for cheap mass production. It just came about too late in the heyday of the doublegun to ever acheive real production.
To claim it as the "Finest Gun in the World" is either Total Ignorance or Unadulerated Arrogance, take your pick.
Its only real claim to fame is an alloy steel frame, but as two Parkers finally let go their chambers, one damascus-one steel, @ about 30K psi both having century old technology case hardend mild steel frames, that's a rather moot point anyway.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43 |
Thanks for the warm welcome...I like 21's. They are light, excessivly strong, increasingly valuable, Ameican and better than my 401k.......Hows yer double gun doing?
Last edited by Cartod; 10/28/10 09:36 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43 |
Had a doublegun been built to all the exact same specs as a 21 under any other name than the Big W one would have to pay "Boot" to trade it for a Butt Ugly NID. The design itself is mediocre at best, being mainly for cheap mass production. It just came about too late in the heyday of the doublegun to ever acheive real production.
To claim it as the "Finest Gun in the World" is either Total Ignorance or Unadulerated Arrogance, take your pick.
Its only real claim to fame is an alloy steel frame, but as two Parkers finally let go their chambers, one damascus-one steel, @ about 30K psi both having century old technology case hardend mild steel frames, that's a rather moot point anyway. There is no cure for Snobbery....!
Last edited by Cartod; 10/28/10 09:35 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
Rockie, would you like to have a little "Blue Pill" Proof Load shootoff? Say 500 rounds?  No I think I would concede that one to the Model 21 ! I really like 21s, the strong design, and Art-Deco look to them, I just think the current market price is too much for me.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 43 |
21's, like realestate, are a buy NOW!
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
Had a doublegun been built to all the exact same specs as a 21 under any other name than the Big W one would have to pay "Boot" to trade it for a Butt Ugly NID. The design itself is mediocre at best, being mainly for cheap mass production. Mr. Miller I think there is a company out there by the name of C.S.M.C that does just that ! :0 But, now seriously I respect your opinion, what features or missing features of the 21 make the design medicore ? I really know very little about them, other than they seem to be a solidly built A&D style Boxlock.
Last edited by postoak; 10/28/10 09:53 PM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,205
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,205 |
What the hell is your problem, Francy boy? This was a discussion among folks that admire the 21. They did not attack anyone else's choice of shotgun model, and certainly not yours. NOBODY cares what you like or how little you understand!
Rockie and I are good friends and were just kidding around. So, get over yourself!
Ole Cowboy
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,205
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,205 |
Had a doublegun been built to all the exact same specs as a 21 under any other name than the Big W one would have to pay "Boot" to trade it for a Butt Ugly NID. The design itself is mediocre at best, being mainly for cheap mass production. It just came about too late in the heyday of the doublegun to ever acheive real production.
To claim it as the "Finest Gun in the World" is either Total Ignorance or Unadulerated Arrogance, take your pick.
To be a smart man, there seems to be bit of ignorance and a hell of a lot of arrogance oozing from you. What pissed you off at the 21? If it's so mediocre, let's hear your recommendation for better and best, along with why it or they are better and best. 
Ole Cowboy
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
You said you didn't like the middle part. I said that that was the best part. What's not to understand? The is no hype involved here. The 21 may not be the best, but it beats the hell out of second place. This one Don; This certainly didn't sound like any kidding around with your friend to me. This was in responce to FrancOtte's trying to disagree "Politely" with you. I just had enough & decided to "Hit the Nail on the Head". "There is ""NO"" Best gun in the world. All designs compromise on something. There is simply no superior design work in a 21. It is just a basic boxlock with squared off frame, single underbolt etc. All features which had been around for decades. Can you point out one single feature which is superior to "All Other" boxlocks other than its alloy steel frame??
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,139 Likes: 200
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,139 Likes: 200 |
The dovetailed chopper lump barrel construction would be one. The fact that more often than is acceptable, the ribs and forend lugs lose their solder integrity does not detract from the ingenuity of the dovetail lumps. The assisted opening design is a great pleasure for those of us who actually spend some time shooting their 21s. British bests, Purdey for example, uses an assisted or self opening system that makes the Model 21 system look like rocket science in comparison. The barrel stop is a bit more refined than on some other highly regarded double guns. Winchester chose to make a double gun of a weight and bulk that was well accepted at the time of its introduction and the entire time of its catalog run, 1930 to 1960. Even during that time, Winchester was willing to make a lightweight 16 or 20 gauge gun as long as the customer didn't insist on picking it up at his local hardware store. Then, as now, a lightweight 12 gauge is a bit of a contradiction in purpose for those who know something about a shotgun. I would assume that among John Olin's high dollar custom shop customers, requests for 6 1/2 pound 12 gauges were rather scarce. I have owned 6 1/4 pound Model 21 20 gauges, the exact same weight of just about all of the zero frame 20 gauge Parkers I have bothered to weigh. True, I have always had to go elsewhere to find a 5 3/4 pound quail gun, but, until recently, I have been physically able to deal with a half pound more. Most of the objections to Model 21 have come from those who have never owned or shot them. As I stated earlier, my first 21 was purchased when I was 19 years old, 46 years ago, so I have a little more experience than the detractors. Of the dozens of 21s I have owned and shot over that time, I have had one bad trigger, and one loose rib, both successfully repaired at little cost. Oddly, I have had no other mechanical work done on any of my 21s. Just as an aside, I don't own one of Tony's 21s, but I'm only waiting to find one at my kind of price. The two 21s that I have bought within the last few months were purchased for $3000 and $500, so Tony has a way to go before I become his customer.
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