doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Help with Heym Proofs

I have a Heym 16 gauge that I think is post 1950 but would appreciate the experts here giving a better or more detailed reading of the proofs and other markings. I forgot to take a picture of the action flats. The only marking on the action flats beside the serial number is the crown with U and the eagle with crown. Now I'm going to go try to shoot a grouse or two with it.

Thank you

Can we see the rest of the marks? Where was it made? Suhl? Muennerstadt?

Without a doubt proofed in Suhl and the reason I find this so interesting is that Karl Adolf Heym owned Heym during this post-1912 to pre-1923 period. With this and considering the longarm is a Heym, I would have to equate the AH stamp with Adolf Heym. RW is not as simple and my first guess would be August Richard Weisheit of Mehlis. Another possibility would be Robert Werner of Suhl and I would say R. Wolf but I believe he was a stocker.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The F.W. Heym business passed from Adolph to his son August Heym in 1920. The "Pagoda" "A" in AH has been found on guns and rifles made when August Heym was running the business.

August Heym was also an engraver but I don't know if he marked his work in any special way.

That very well may be true but I believe August's full name was August Wilhelm Heym and I would say he would have used the initials W.H. and not A.H., but then again either is possible. Also some sources give that during the period of 1920 to 1930 that Karl Adolf Heym & August Wilhelm Heym were joint owners. But I haven't seen enough consistent sources to say either way.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Well, no grouse for the pot (or pan etc) but a bit more info on the gun.

The top of the barrels are engraved with:
Right Barrel - "Fr. Wilh. Heym"
Left Barrel - "Gewehrfabrick Suhl"

I also just noticed what looks to be a "F.A." stamped on the barrel flats but into the bluing so it's hard to see. Can't be sure about the "F" as the top portion is not well defined.

I believe that my photos and my notes now show or describe all markings on the gun.

Raimey, would you be good enough to decipher/explain the various markings. I am understanding your conclusions as to time period but I am missing how you got there.

I am specifically interested in:
How you narrow it to the date range you noted.
What the twin K in diamond mean.

Thanks for the help and regards,

James

James:
I'd be also very interested if the F.A. stamp is present. It fits in the time frame for what I'm guessing but now with so many sets of initials I'm curious as to who did exactly what.

On the date range, 1st there isn't a proof date or date code, that's your 1st clue. Post WWI II one would expect to see proofmarks of the Ulm proofhouse(post 1952?) also seeing Heym would have been in Muennerstadt by then. The next clue is the "Eagle Nitro" stamp and one will ONLY see this stamp between 1912 & 1939 and it just makes economic sense that the longarm would have passed thru Suhl and not Franfurt an der Oder. And to the best of my knowledge that "Eagle Nitro" on the Heym example is the stamp of the Suhl proofhouse for the period of 1912-1939. Early on in the period one will find the stamp on the sides of the tubes at the breech. Then sometime, say post WWI just as a guess, for the most part the stamp is seen on the flats. If MP is correct and the stamp "AH" is post 1920 then the date range would be 1920 - 1923 when a date stamp was required.


The "K" in the rhombus, or rotated square, is not as well defined and more than likely falls with in one of the two families of tube forgers/makers: Klett or Kelber. Since there are 2 stamps it seems that 2 separate tasks/effort were performed by the tube maker and with that goes compensation as well as liability. The Kelbers, Louis, Rud. & Wilhelm made a lot tubes but one rarely sees a R. Kelber stamp. There are some authorities that think this is the mark of Gebrüder Kelber. F.A. Klett was from a long line of Suhl gunmakers and by the mid 1800s there were no less than a baker's dozen of those craftsmen in all facets of gunmaking with Gottlieb Klett's widow being the owner of the tube making forge. I don't know what the Klett's mark may have been but considering the lineage and that every present "E.K." (looking like E.H.) stamps post WWI, the forge still had to be in operation. So whichever it might be, the craftsmen perfomed 2 different functions like bringing the tube to a state where it could be sent to the proofhouse for the preliminary test, which is higher on the tubes, and then finishing the tube to the final diameter. It seems that the tube steel type stamp is going to isolate a maker.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Thanks so much for your explanation, as well as the deciphering. It seems there is a little more to decoding these German/Austrian guns than British firearms.