doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com d Kalezky in Wien Muzzle loader

Im not sure if this belongs in the section (or even on the forum) but I will try it on for size. I have an Old muzzleloader 38 cal that is EXTREMELY ornate. It has gold and silver inlay (not engravings) Mother of pearl eyes on the dog and Lion heads, tons of engraving and scroll work.
Family legend is that it was won in a high stakes card game in Morrocco in the early 1900s. Rust has taken its toll in the last few years as it was tied up in an estate and NOT looked after. I hesitate cleaning it as I dont wish to destroy its value. I have wiped it down with a light gun oil and keep it dry.
Any ideas as to its origin?
Thanks,
Frank

Raimey will be with you shortly? But we will need some good pictures.

Best Regards, George

I'd 1st guess the maker is Johann Kalezky of Vienna. He ranks pretty high on my list of makers, but then again so do many others. It would be a delight to see some pics and to determine if the longarm was made inhouse or souced. There may be an article in one of the up-coming GGCA(German Gun Collectors Association - www.germanguns.com ) with some info on Johan Kalezky. There's some speculation that Johann Kalezky was the point source for A. Henry falling block actions within the Austro-Hungarian empire. Your calibre might be 9mm.

Johann Kalezky more than likely was born near Weipert and in guessing that he was typical of gunmakers I'd say he was 23 or 24 years old when he received his master's sheepskin as in 1845 he opened a shop in Vienna(Wien) at Mariahilferstrasse 17. So subtracting 23 or 24 years from 1845 would yield his birth-date. At any rate he continued on until 1889 when the lone bell tolled for Johann and Bertha Kalezky, and maybe Johann Jr.?, took the reins. Johann Kalezky peddled about 100 less than 3000 weapons, with some being sourced in the white from gunmaking centers like Suhl and I’d guess Weipert. A guess on his yearly production would be around 2 dozen to 3 dozen per year. He was in an excellent location near the capital building and in 1872 had the privilege of making an example for the Austrian Emperor. He also made examples for Franz Joseph and Franz Ferdinand, whose collection may have been dispersed during WWI. Johann Kalezky’s firm continued until 1937 when it closed it doors.



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey
Dont know how to post pictures. And use a Mac so most folks cant educate me.LOL
I have seen some of the posts about Johan, however kinda had ruled him out because of the d in front of the name. I can email you pictures if you will PM me your email addy. I measured the bore at .41X inches.
Thanks again,
Frank

Frank:
Sure I'll post them for you. I really don't know what occupation Johann Kalezky's held and I don't know of another Kalezky in Wien but once again that doesn't mean much. I'm not sure of his middle name, but possibly he sourced the longarm and the maker used his middle initial. If it is indeed a Johann Kalezky example and the top rib doesn't wear the "k.u.k." stamp, then it was made between the 1840s and early 1870s. Looking forward to the pics. Images of the marks on the plugs and near the forend pin will be most beneficial.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Frank:
That looks like a "J" to me. The longarm is a target arm with double set triggers and is missing the globe sight on the rear tang and something on the right side of the wrist; maybe a rest of some sort?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I forgot to mention that some sources give that Johann Kalezky used American Walnut. Upon close examination can you say if the stock is American Walnut?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey
Cant tell you if its American Walnut or not. (dont know my woods well enough). We had a fellow tell us the gun was worthless because of the rust (then it was worth over 12,5K+) in the same email.
This gun will probably go on the auction block at some time in the very near future. Is there a way to fix the date down a little better? Anything else you can tell me?
Thanks to all for the quick responses,
Frank

Even among Kalezky collectors, I don't know if it would realize all that much due to condition. Knowing what the mechanical side of the locks looks like as well as the underside of the tube may increase the value. If it were mine, and I don't know if he would perform the renovation or what it might cost, but Steve Zihn of Wyoming turns out some pretty incredible muzzleloaders and he might bring it back to the state of a shooter. Is there a crack in the wrist?

I really don't know the date that the globe sight came into use but the mount seems to be of that variety and it may be that the sight evolved about the time of the percussion cap. I don't know of a globe type sight on a flintlock, but there could be. Can you send me a pic of the hammer back showing the nipple? The triggerguard bow may have also served as a rest. There may be a date or stamp on the under side of the tubes that helps narrow the date. The lock makes me think of Valentin Christoph Schilling or maybe one of the Mehlis craftsmen. Stamps on the underside of the tube would verify this. Let me send this on to GGCA's Mr. Richard Hummel and see if we can get some answers.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Raimey
I'll try and get some more/better photos and email them to you.
Frank