doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help ID a Kettner shotgun

Not mine, I'm helping a friend. I can't find these exact proof marks online - close, but not a perfect match.

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/nealwest/4974413822/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/nealwest/4974413824/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/nealwest/4974413804/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/nealwest/4974413820/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/nealwest/4974413816/[/img]
Thanks

Made at the Sauer facility more than likely with imported tubes. I've seen the encircled monogram many times on the early longarms and think it may belong to a Funk. But the "Caveman" with a "Staff" is pure Sauer.



Large and small crowns on the water table denote shooting performance and quality. Most crowns I've seen were on the flats. The Imperial Eagle holding a sword in the right talon and an orb in the left talon, if I remember correctly, is either a Sauer inhouse pre-1893 proofmark or an arsenal mark that I've seen only on Sauers. From Stephen's compilation of serial numbers, which I don't have at my fingertips at the moment, you can get a best guess of a manufacture date. Looks like Sauer sourced the action work, or the wholesaler subed the action work, to the craftsman "AW". Sauer was sourced but I can't say if Eduard Kettner was the wholesaler or not.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, two crowns undoubtedly means complitely made gun.
There have to be two crowns on flats as well.

Thanks Geno. With the crowns, this Model 2? Sauer example could be posted on your Sauer Crowns thread. Jeff Stephen's composed serial number sequence contains the above in the range for 1887. Mr. Jim Cate of GGCA on page 78 of his text gives Sauer 34,521 with Ed. Kettner's name in the same location as circa 1892. The "Cal:18.2" just may be the tube diameter in mm at some point in the process(is it a 12 bore??) and is also seen on Sauer 34,521 but instead of the "BAND", the tube is stamped "BERN" and Mr. Cate gives the stamp as having an origin in Switzerland. So maybe the rough tubes were imported from Belgium thru Switzerland and on into Germany. Right off I don't know of a facility or city named "BAND" in Switzerland but that doesn't mean much. I'm not sure if Sauer was fully mechanized by the late 1880s but they could have easily outsourced some work or a mechanic with the initials may have worked in a specific area at Sauer. There are several guesses for "AW" which would be August Weiß(not sure if he was active this early), Adam Werner(he would have been up in years) and several others. A ledger or work-order more than likely would solve the puzzle.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for the info so far. The owner says a relative liberated it from one of the Kaiser's bunkers during WW2 (doesn't quite make sense, I know). Is there anything on here that links it, or disproves, a link to royalty?

This is all historically incorrect. The Kaiser died in Holland in 1941, andI doubt he had a bunker even in WW I as Berlin was never bombed and there was no need for one.

But I suppose the statement could have been symbolic. But it's got the wrong war.

Wilhelm had a withered left arm, and I don't know if he could hold a shotgun, although he could shoot a pistol. The gun doesn't look to be imperial quality, however.

For what it is worth, there was at least one gun maker in Suhl in the 1880's named Band.

I'd like to here more about the Band fella if there is any info. Also I think the "S" before the "BAND" & "BERN"(as in Mr. Cate's Sauer longarm book) to not be connected/related.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse