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This is from Littlegun

BRITTE brothers , Theophile to the right, in the center Lambert and Jean LHOEST Brother in Law of the brothers at the left.



In this picture at least, I do not see them as barrel makers, but rather barrel fitters.

Fitters
Always seen with a set of barrels.






Makers
They are always shown with their tools in hand or unfinished tubes.







Pete

Raimey, Here are the pix you requested. (If there is anything else you want to see ask ASAP before I put it back in the safe.)

The brld actions I have/had were serial number marked with a B prefix and in the mid 300 and low 400 range.
These pix pretty much show all of the marks of the original metalwork.

Some of the barrels were marked differently but I do not have images of them. The bores are polished but unfinished without any chambering, tight chokes and minute traces on the barrel marks showing as tiny dimples inside. These dimples will clean-up with finish honing.

Barrel Marks


Inside Britte sidelock as received. (resting on wood block)


Ejector mechanism with pivot supported on both sides.


Barreled action with tag in French as I received it.


SDH Finished example.

I guess this is my favorite Littlegun Britte pic. I'd like to see a few more frames with the workers at their benches/workstations.


Inside Britte sidelock as received. (resting on wood block)



Barella

Steven Dodd:
Thanks for all the effort and I believe you have captured more than enough. Are there variations in the early and late Britte locks and are there subtle differences in lockwork between different examples, i.e., could the Barella sourced lock have originated at Britte Freres.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The locks have a number of differences, I can see about 10 right of the bat. Whether or not they originated from the same source cannot be determined from internet photography.

GGCA's Axel E. confirms that the letters after the steel type/receipe stamp "Martin Siemens Steel" are "LC", which I believe him to be correct in equating Lucian Clement. PeteM, can you copy the image of barrel maker Lucian Clement whaling on the tube to this thread? Was "Martin Siemens Steel" a trademark of Lucian Clement?

So if we have tubes sourced from Lucian Clement what part did Liege/Paris barrel maker Louis Bougnet play?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Armand Henrion, T. Dassy & Victor Heuschen used the following:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20h%20d%20h%20gb.htm

Special steel Martin Siemens
Super-dreadnought
Terrible Bull
The Royal
The Talisman
Best Shot
cross axes (two) and a die showing the face of the three
Etourdissor
H&D
H&D Automatic Pistol Obvious
halberds (two) and a die showing the face five
HD and patented
((NOTE HD alone is NOT their trademark but that of Henri Devillers.))
HDH with or without square around
Matagatos
Suffocant
==================

Lucien Clement used the following:

Liègeoise
Spangled steel
Special steel with two cross hammers
Steel Fine Extra Inhabitant of Liège
The Américan Settler
The English Bullock
The Franco-Russian One
The Guardian Américan model of 1878
The Washinton
ACCT
Bull's eye
cartridge of or leaves the flashes with the initial LC of each with dimensions
CCNM
perron of Liege surrounded of the letters L and C
Compressed Steel with a marine wheel.
Crucible cast steel with initial the DC interlaced
Decarburated Steel
Fluss-Stahl with a haume preceded
Fulgor
giraffe
Hammered Fluid Steel with two cross hammers and initial DC AA
Hammered Fluid Steel with two cross hammers and initial DC LC
LC
================


This is an early etching of the Lucien Clement shop. Notice 2 things. There is an electric light hanging over head. The workman is using a hydraulic barrel straightener, most likely purchased from the British.



Both Clement and HDH were hugh shops. Yes they were barrel makers, just as Pieper was. None of them had a smelter or ran a foundry. They were purchasing raw stock and then supplying the trade. They also produced weapons and ammunition under various house brands.

If the above trade marks are a tad "rough" as they are still auto translated. My list is very large, over 2,000. I haven't had the time / ambition to clean it all up. Some day..... It is also entirely possible that some trademarks of either firm are missing from the above lists.

Because LC and Siemans appear on the same barrel does not mean Clement was dealing in Siemans steel, at least in my mind. HDH could have supplied the tubes and Clement joined them. Or a dozen other scenarios. These makers often formed associations for a particular contract. Tomorrow they would become competitors once again.

Pete

Peter:
Thanks for the effort. Could the machinery also been sourced from the U.S. of A. I've read a couple of sources that gave that, with the exception of machines used for developing the wood components, noted that most of the other machinery was sourced from the U.S. of A.

Marc has a Belgian source or 2 that thinks that the possibility exists that Nicolas Jacquet might be the source for the locks. I've read on more than one occassion that lock assembly was a family affair with the locks being assembled in the home, sometimes on the kitchen table.

Some collectors and engravers in Suhl believe that the Gesteck, or raw metal components "kit", was sourced by Barella and brought into Suhl where the longarm was completed there by barrel knitters and other master craftsmen. An example or 2 is purported to exist with very similar engraving with the work being attributed to Bemesu or Bernhard Merkel.

I think that WWI may have had some bearing or effect on sourcing. Many of the craftsmen were lost in the event and it may have been that at the time due to external forces Barella had to source outside his normal sourcing lines. There are a host of other marks that appear to be non-Suhl and need to be addressed. I don't see any yet that point to a particular Suhl craftsman. Louis Bougnet was in Liege, and according to his stamps on the longarm was also in Paris, and appears to be a key figure although his task as stamped on the flats is barrel-maker.

Last upon disassembly of the forend iron and it's wooden mate, there is a worn stamp that may, or may not, be the Britte Freres mark of "B. FRES. BTE.".

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

John Henry Andrew was born in Sheffield in the year 1824. After completing his schooling he was an apprentice at a cutlery facility on Doncaster Street named Wilson & Southern. In 1846 at the age of 22 he became a partner at Richard Groves and Sons of Sheffield who produced edged tools like files, saws, etc. He was a member of the Cutler’s Company and later achieved the rank of senior warden. After 16 years of saving his coins he ventured out on his on at a facility named the Malinda Works. Apparently he was really blowing and going and quickly out grew the Malinda Works and by 1863 he found himself constructing a new facility at Neepsend which he christened(possibly a strong word so maybe dubbed?) the Toledo Steel Works, a name associated with his steel forevermore. He was of the jet-set before jet were even considered as he crossed the pond(Atlantic) near 60(sixty) times. In the 1870s his health began to falter and it may have been attributed to all the hustle and bustle early on, but this is just conjecture. By 1882 he was pretty much forced to retire due to his poor health and this 3 sons took the reins. At this same time he was on track to become a Master Cutler but he decided against it thinking that the pressure might even more lessen his years. In 1881 he was elected to the Institute. He was a patron of the arts and evidently had quite a collection of rare and interesting pictures. Just prior to his death, possibly on his 60th birthday, he donated 2k pounds sterling to charities of Sheffield as well as the healthcare system.

Evidence of their world wide distribution:

“Toledo Steel Works Neepsend Lane
Manufacturers of best warranted cast steel, of all descriptions, for tools, machinery, Wire drawings & c., and general merchants; Depots: 104, and 106, John Street, New York, 90 rue Amelot, Paris; and 42, and 44, Foundling Street, Grey Nun's Block Montreal Canada” This is somewhat of a rehash to the locations PeteM has already posted.

But I haven't found the "why" behind the sourcing of the John Henry Andrew steel tubes by the Belgians. I've read a source or 2 that suggested the Belgian were importing raw tubes? Also I'm curious as to the actual number of tubes sourced by the Belgians(less than 500?)?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The following is a bit of composed info on Martin - Siemens steel and Siemens - Martin steel. There's more if anyone is interested.

Carl(Karl) Wilhelm Siemens, British subject Charles William Siemens, was born near Hannover on April 4th, 1823 and expired on November 19th, 1883(Knighthood same year). He was one 14(fourteen) children, the eldest brother being Ernst Werner Siemens who founded Siemens Brothers in London and during the years 1874 & 1875 Brothers Siemen laid the Direct United States Cable using a ship named Faraday, which the Brothers Siemens had designed and built. I would venture to guess that they also made the cable. Ernst Werner Siemens had a knack for things electrical and salesman Carl Wilhlem Siemens departed Germany on March 10th, 1843 bound for England to peddle one of Ernst Werner Siemens' patent to fund the education of the rest of the children. He remined in England for the remainder of his days. It was the knowledge of Electricity and Magnetism thru is brother Ernst Werner Siemens that allowed Carl Wilhelm Siemens to make the advances in metallurgy that he did.

The original Siemen's 1861 patented method(put into practice in 1865 in England) was an acid process that melted solely pig iron and then oxidize the impurities by imputing ore into the mix. The Brothers Martin, Emile & Pierre, of Sireuil France devised a new method, named Martin - Siemens, which introduced wrought iron scrap metal into the equation. The Martin - Siemens method had a bit of oxidation but was for the most part a dilution process instead. So the Siemens-Martin process(a name used in the Britian and the U.S. of A.), or recipe, was an oxidation process involving the mixture of pig iron and ore while the Martin - Siemens process(a name used in France and some parts of Europe) was a dilution process involving the mixture of pig iron and wrought iron scap metal. So depending on the name, a different recipe is noted. There's some confusion if there actually was a Martin furnace but in 1868 a facility utilizing the Siemens - Martin process was built in Trenton New Jersey by the New Jersey Steel & Iron Company under the direction of Abram S. Hewitt, who traveled to France and was most impressed by the advances of the Frenchmen. Martin-Siemens or Siemens - Martin steel has the characteristic of being easier to manipulate cold than other steels and works even better when heated. I'm sure there are composition percentages listed which may not vary much between the 2 steel types.

For now I don't know about the Acier Martele Siemens stamp and guess it to be a trademark and more than likely a recipe.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Sure Raimey, have at it...
and Thanks again!