doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com White whale in sight! Rem. M17E

Some of you may recall this gun, it's been posted here a few times. I may have a chance to purchase this once lovely 17E, it has been languishing in a basement for many years and the owner is finally motivated to sell. The wood can be brought back but the metal will require a complete redo and much re-engraving and screw repair. Taking into account the condition issues and what it will take to make this gun right what would you think to be a fair price to pay?



Also, does anyone offer a service for lettering Remington guns?

thanks, Rob

RIGHT CLICK/VIEW IMAGE for larger pics.

Rob,that once was a beautiful gun! good luck! A good engraver could recut the lettering,etc. Bobby

That just doesn't look like a difficult restoration. I would not try to make the metal 100%. Don't miss out on this rare gun. No letters on Remington guns, but go to the RSA post 1900 shotgun forum and maybe someone will give you some further information.

Great gun. Murphy is right. Do not go over board on redoing the engraving.

Pete

As far as the metal goes; I'm not so sure I'd go any farther than cleaning off the surface rust. With a little luck you're not looking at severe pitting here.
The wood? Clean the grunge off and out of the checkering and lets see what's below.
Admittedly I'm sort of a minimalist when it comes to a gun in this condition but It can only have its original finish once!
Jim

Clean the rust off and call it good! As Jim said, "it can only have its original finish once". I'd much rather have a little rough action than one whose history has been destroyed by the buff. Congratulations and BUY that gun!

I'm tending to agree with you all but is 0000 steel wool and Hoppes going to get all the rust off this gun? Especially in the engraving?

Hopefully we'll find out, will report back if he finally decides to go through with the sale.

A bronze brush or maybe a SS brush will get the rust out of the engraving. I agree with those calling for a non-invasive restoration. If you clean the wood and then put some Tru Oil on top, it will look authentic without looking renewed.

Formby's Furniture Refinisher will remove outer layers of grease and so long as you don't sand it, will look original once you oil it. It's not a stripper, and will leave just the right amount of "old".

I'm all for refinishing over most faults and scratches in wood. The wood then looks well-cared for and used rather than raw and new.

I think you'll be surprised how much 0000 and Hoppes will clean this up. It's kind of hard to tell but the rust looks pretty fine grained. I hope some will chime in on this because I have not yet tried it, but I have heard that you can put rusty gun parts in boiling water first and the red rust will convert to black oxide as is done in rust bluing. Then when you card with steel wool, the metal is left a bit darker than when just removing red rust. Sounds logical, but hopefully someone has first hand experience.

Lots' of good advice. I purchased an ultrasonic cleaner last year and it makes inroads into rust, that may help also.

It all depends on whether the seller is going to be reasonable in his monetary expectations.He has changed his mind twice before.


thanks, Rob

Rob,

I would NOT use steel wool, its way too easy to take remaining finish off.

Rather, buy some Kleen Bore Formulae 3 and use the edge of an old copper 'wheat' penny to remove the surface rust. Using a fresh bronze brush stuck in a suitable handle can work on the engraving and if you are handy you can make a handled 'point' using a portion of a brazing rod & the same formulae 3 to do the chasing of the engraving with much better results. Take your time and you will be very pleased with the result and there is no issue with a 'slip' if you make one as the copper & brass are both softer than the steel and its surface blue finish. I'm assuming you will have the stock removed, if not be even more cautious as a slip w/ a brass 'point' could easily put a new gouge in the wood.

edit/addendum: 'The Formulae 3 w/copper penny edge or brass point will not harm the original blue finish. Steel wool can certainly do so. I most certainly would NOT use anything stainless steel on the outside of that gun's metal, you are guaranteed to leave scrathes & marks, doing more harm than good.'

You have excellent advice from others about not going overboard on it, you can easily exceed its value which will be that of an interesting high grade shooter.

As to fair price, and this is only my own opinion, I would think that somewhere around $400, but not further north than $600, taking into consideration that all model 17's are 20's, so even though it is a desirable ga. it is not at all rare from that perspective. The grade does make it a lot more desirable, but the condition will kill much of that. I could not determine from the pics if it has a solid rib and that too would hurt from a desirable featurs perspective I would think. No matter, they are wonderful shooters. I realize that this has been a targeted acquisition for you for a long while & am glad that you are finally getting a shot at it, but keep in mind that anything above the range mentioned is 'gifting', IMHO. The market is very soft at this time and that may or may not enter into your thinking, but at least be aware of it. There are true collectors here, much better informed than I & on other sites for more varied opinions, but I'll stick to mine. Perhaps something here will prove of assistance to you.

kind regards, tw

Thanks TW, good restoration advice but the acquisition will be the thing. $600 is what I had offered last time and was refused. I know he wants around $800 for it now.

It's a matter of $200 and I'll never see another so I may have to swallow my pride and shell out the extra cash. Probably won't miss it in a few months...

I use heavy guage copper wire in an antler or wood handle in one of my other interests,flint-knapping. I chizel sharpen the copper to pressure flake the stone. I've used this same tool to remove stubborn rust on a gun without marring the finish...Geo

0000 steel wool won't remove finish, but it will remove rust and rust has already removed finish. So what you're removing is not something to preserve.

I probably wouldn't use steel wool in the engraving as it doesn't always get in the figure of the engraving...it's too "bulky". Kind of like using a pillow to wash your car.

I'd give $800 and wouldn't blink and eye. That is going to clean up into one heck of a nice gun,I believe.

Rob:

Did you ever buy the 17E owner the Mossberg you were going to get him in '06.....?

If you get the gun:

1. disassemble the complete gun and pull the barrel. Strip all the parts in a mild diluted acid bath solution which will remove the rust and blueing (which appears bad anyway)...white vinegar works well....without damaging the engraving or any of the sharp edges, it will not even attack the guns tool marks including all the engravers tool chatter...... Wash immediately in a fresh water bath. Re-dip if more cleaning is necessary, but watch very closely. No wheels or buffing or abrasives........

2. lightly polish all the metal etched surfaces with 600 wet or dry in "one direction only" and do it lightly by hand with a water bath. The engraving looks o.k. in the photo's, but have a pro touch it up if you deem it necessary.

3. clean or dip in acetone and re-rust blue the entire gun, hot blue or nitre blue the screws based on what the factory did. You can buy new screws from Numrich to replace the buggered ones and blue as necessary.....or engrave and blue.

4. refinish the wood and recut the checkering.

5. reassemble....should look new if done with patience and care.

6. I agree with the above posts, $800.00 all day long Rob on that gun...

7. No service is available to letter Remington guns...D.O.M. dates are available on the Remington web site for some models, or by calling Remington in North Carolina @ 1-800-243-9700.

Good Luck......

Doug

Nice looking 12-C. I have my grandmother's. It's my favorite .22 for greys here in PA.

Cheers
Marcus

I'm with RDH, if the pictures are accurate I'd give $800 pretty fast actually.

DLH

I might give $800 for an original Remington, but not for a refinished one.

Did anyone pay any attention to what that F grade Model 11 brought at auction recently? It was in the thousands, these graded repeaters get a lot more attention these days than they did not long ago.

DLH

I've got the Savage rendition of that same .22 rifle. It's in great shape!

Yup......

Doug as ever my friend...splendid work

Be sure and let us see the finished result if you get the gun and get her restored. I would bet this is about as rare a 20th century factory engraved repeating shotgun as you are going to find,with the exception of the very early,pre-WW1,model 12 Winchesters.

!

I sure would like to see pictures of the 17E again that started this thread. This photobucket debackle is a real drag...

I tend to stay away from such abrasives as steel wool (no matter how fine) or SS brushes, and rely wholly on Big 45 Frontier Pads for rust and crud from the finest to the worst.

I'm not going to be putting them up with a hosting service again, perhaps if Dave starts self hosting images.

Bronze wool, Kroil, and your elbow greaser turned down to "LOW"....that's my story and I'm stickin' to it: "First, do no harm." A good motto for all of us, even us gunnutz.

Looking forward to a successful purchase and restoration. And in the future, some pix of dead birds!

I'd join in the chorus of abuse of Photobucket, but have to admit I never got there (now flint knapping, THAT's a silicon chip techology I can understand although my own efforts remain strictly Old Stone Age....).

Flintknapping eh? Me too. Are there any BBS forums on the subject? Think we should abuse the members here with pictures of our neolithic efforts???...Geo

Geo, post a photo or two of your work. I think folks would be amazed. Gil

Nah, you go ahead. I'll just sit here and stroke my brow ridges. (The BBS certainly deserves better than MY efforts....).

If you google Remington m17e, the photos for that gun attributed to doublegunshop come up in images.

That's correct if you Google Remington 17E, then go to IMAGES, my gun would be pictures 1, 3, 13, 14 & 15.