doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Heinrich Barella - Leue - Sourced Theophile Britte

Does anyone think the following Heinrich Barella peddled example originally was sourced from Theophile Britte??







Barella


Britte finished by SDH-MT


Christophe

After Henri Pieper's death in 1898 sources give that the firm exclusively used Siemens Martin steel, so I wonder if they were sourced for tubes. PeteM can correct me, but it appears about this time that the Belgians were churning out about 1.5 million barrels a year.

Peter, you may be correct in your interpretation and as you say the info is a snap-shot into the sourcing at a specific point in time. Economics, War, etc., changes sourcing lines as well as advances in technology.

Heinrich Barella, born circa 1819 and expired in 1893, was long gone by the time this example was sourced. It seems that an heir or assign to Barella was the wholesaler and sourced the components. Then he either subed the contract work to L.B. and L.B. in turn subed work he didn't perform. Otherwise, Barella subed the work to different independent contractor for specific tasks and I'm pretty confident that little effort was applied in Suhl. Note the proof in the final state and that compulsory proof didn't exist in France until 1962?

Krupp was late to the game and was used solely due to economics and business relationships. I think Witten steel was used more than we realize.

I can't resist a link to the past: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137432#Post137432

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

I have exact numbers buried somewhere in my research. But I would say you are in the ball park, perhaps even a little low.

It is important to know that at this slice in time Pieper was dealing with them. It certainly gives us a picture of how big they really were then. It is also interesting to note that about this time the Germans were complaining about the Liege proof house. Through the Brussels Convention they forced higher proof pressures to be used. Because of the war, it did not happen in Belgium until much later.

Pete

Seeing that Heinrich Leue was Heinrich Barella's nephew or relative, Leue may be the link to the sourcing of the craftsmen at Liege. Heinrich Leue & F. Timpe founded a business in 1860 and they seem to heavily source the Liege craftsmen. Heinrich Leue had some type of eye disease, or injury, and it may be this fact that allowed he and W.W. Greener to cross paths in making crossover stocks. But at some point either in the 1880s or 1890s, Heinrich Leue was the W.W. Greener rep. in Germany. Also about this time Heinrich Leue translated Greener's text and peddled it?
(1645 - Jadg-Flinte)
copy & paste
http://books.google.com/books?id=wheCZd5vggoC&pg=PA153&dq=w.w.+greener+%26+h.+leue&hl=en&ei=yQJsTK01w_zwBpGunaEL&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=w.w.%20greener%20%26%20h.%20leue&f=false

Then Heinrich Leue & Max Knoll joined forces in 1887 and carried on from there.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Mr. Hallquist exerted some effort so that even I could see the mark:









Even the serial numbers or assembly number(which I doubt) are close.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Even though these tubes sets aren't all confirmed Britte Freres sourced, I wanted to put them side by side in an attempt to jog my memory where I've seen the hammer stamp recently.





Siemens Martin Martele






Jno. Hy. Andrew & Co, LTD


V. Halska & Company from Littlegun's site.

Other than a marketing ploy, why would one want "Sheffield Steel" tubes instead of a local name steel type? Can you really imagine 500k tubes being held to one of those large grinding wheels each year? Tube makers were a hardy lot and in the gunmaking centers I think that a handful of certain families were sourced for tubes.



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, the 17,000 range numbers on the Nowotny and
Christophe seem to be the manufacturer's number of the barreled action, not the serial number of the finished gun. The Christophe has a 4 digit number.

Thanks Raimey!

BTW: The case colored, gold-washed locks you identify as Britte were modified and finished in my shop and not really representative of Britte in-the-white production.
Thanks again,
Steve

Thanks SDH-MT so where might I acquire an image of an "in the white" Britte lock and do you have any idea of the serial number range on the whole lot of barreled actions?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Do not think as an American. No ploy involved. They were located in Sheffield. The trade name is Andrews Toledo Steel works. Toledo swords are some of the finest in the world. They were of course produced in Toledo, Spain. Wiki
I bet you were looking in Ohio

They are listed under hammers in an 1895 source as an importer of goods into western Australia. But this was just a side line. They were a steel producer

Andrews Toledo, LTD
Toledo Works, Sheffield, 3
Steels for the aircraft and other industries; wire rods, spring steels, high-speed alloy and carbon tool steels

104 and 106 John Street, New York
10 Rue St. Pierre, Popincourt, Paris
44 Foundling st Grey Nun's Block, Montreal

Take a look at this. It is loaded with trade marks of English steel makers.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z_INAAA...son&f=false

Pete

Nice find on the trademarks.

It is possible that ingots or tube steel was shipped to Liege, but I'd hedge my bets there was a licensed facility there. The may not have made steel but produced raw forgings for the tube makers.

I haven't found a pic of a Britte lock, but Littlegun has some interesting factory pics: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20britte%20gb.htm

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse