doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Do we need choke?

A few years ago I bought an old (1890 made) Husqvarna hammer double with 16-gauge, 80 cm barrels, one full choke, one cylinder -- a fairly common combination for one-gun hunters that used that one gun for grouse, rabbits, foxes, roedeer, and moose (latter with round ball loads in cylinder bore barrel -- quite capable on moose at 50 meters or less -- common distances in dense, dark forests in late 1800s). Someone also lengthened forcing cones to about 10-15 cm.

In recent decades I have used almost exclusively light weight, long barreled (75 cm), tight choked, 16-bore doubles with 24 to 30 gram of hard lead alloy or bismuth-tin shot in one-peice plastic wads, for everything from quail to geese. Deadly guns for how I hunt -- no sky-busting, try to keep shots under 45 yards for ducks, geese and pheasants, under 40 yards for smaller birds.

I quickly found that cylinder bore barrel was quite useful at 16-yard trap with 24-28 grams #7 or #7,5 shot. In duck season that cylinder bore was deadly on decoying ducks with 28 grams #5 Bi-Sn shot at about 1250 fps.

I suspect that 80 cm barrel allows for significantly less powder-gass disturbance of shot and wad column as it exits muzzle, even compared to 75 cm barrels.

More importantly, I now have a gun with two chokes that cover nearly all my shotgun shooting. Previously I used scatter loads when I needed more open patterns, or, when possible, just waited out bird till pattern opened.

SO, is full choke or no choke best?? I want BOTH!! Overall, each choke drops plenty of birds. Prefer this 120 year-old hammer double for sporting clays -- only decision is which barrel to shoot first.

Niklas

ah... der aint nuttin lik ah polychoke on ah 16 bore pump gon. hello der, sweet versatility!

The article is in the latest Shooting Sportsman magazine. I used to like MM writings years ago, until he decided to become a professional shooting analyst. Now I just roll my eyes and laugh at some of the fluff he talks about. No need for choke and no need for single selective triggers on double guns? This is the opinion of a man who has a very limited shooting experience. I pretty much tune MM out these days; so should SSM.
JR

I read that. But, he stated the same thing in a article for SSM years ago. I looked through all my back issues last night and couldn't find it. Yet. If I do I'll post the issue date.

The sad thing about it is that MM is such a talented writer. I really enjoy reading him, I just take all the content with a grain of salt. As long as a writer is relating data from valid research I can keep an open mind, but when he/she starts pontificating on subjective stuff that is basically opinion I get very skeptical. That's the case with most of the stuff he writes now, IMO.

I think his greatest contribution to the written word is his Fox book. I just wish we could talk Researcher into writing one, hint, hint .

Stan

I wouldn't go so far as to say "no need for SST's" (don't have the latest issue yet), but other than for cold weather hunting when heavy gloves can be a problem with DT's, I think most would agree that DT's are both more reliable and allow more rapid selection of barrel.

I would like to get something cleared up once and for all about single selective triggers. They are not intended to be fast, they are intended to be convenient. An SST is not meant to be used quickly when a bird is in the air, it is meant to be used as a choice WELL BEFORE you mount the gun and are about to take a shot.

Most times, you know about what kinds of shots you will be taking, and you set your SST accordingly. You don't wait until the bird flushes or approaches and then start thinking which way to punch the selector. You set it up ahead of time and go with it.

Sure, double triggers are much faster for instant choke selection and I see no argument with that. But they take up a lot of room in the trigger guard and are VERY difficult to use on cold days with heavy gloves, and that's where a single trigger shines. If it is selectable, so much the better.

Sometimes, on incoming targets such as geese or ducks, you know you are going to need to fire the tighter-choked barrel first on most shots, and you set your selector accordingly. I have NEVER tried to punch a selector button while shouldering a gun, and don't ever intend to.

Where SSTs really show out is on a Sporting Clays course, where you get to view the presentation first, select which barrel/choke you desire to fire first, and quit thinking about it. Saves changing choke tubes a whole lot of times. With double triggers, I can guarantee you will pull either the front or rear trigger in the wrong sequence on a five pair station. Might not matter to a casual shooter, but in competition, it matters a lot.
JR

I have found that most folks who shoot double triggers a lot, and have for most of their life, including myself, still require some concerted practice to be able to shoot the left barrel first, then move to the front trigger with the same speed and "second nature" that we do when firing the right barrel first, then moving to the back trigger.

As much as we like having the instant option to choose barrels (chokes) by choosing a trigger, I would bet money that most of the shooters who champion the double trigger set-up cannot go from rear trigger to front with the finesse of front to rear, just from lack of practice. True pairs on a sporting clay range will give us that practice we need.

Having used double triggers for over 50 years of shotgunning, long ago I found front to back sequence really fast, normally way faster than I could generally recover from recoil (save for really light loads or wounded rising birds). Back to front is usually fast enough that it does not slow me down (recoil does, again, save for really light loads).

Sole SST I ever used for hunting was Browning Citori with selector combined with safety. After a few hunts with that gun, I found myself shifting selector in anticipation of shots on waterfowl, just like I shift between front and back triggers. After a while, I even found myself doing same with selector on flushes, even on birds not pointed by dog(s).

As other posters note, SSTs really shine when wearing heavy gloves. Next best are larger trigger guards and often even wider trigger spacing on scandinavian doubles -- thanks to common usage with gloves. Southern European doubles often seem to be made for folks with slender, damsel-like fingers.

Niklas

Well said, John. I agree with you, even if I do not do so in practice. I compete in S x S events with a non-selectable BSS, choked mod. and full. When I compete in the main events and prelims it is with a fixed choke non-selectable MX-8 choked .020" and .020". I will, more than likely, have the chokes on the BSS opened to the same mod/mod set-up, even though the mod/full worked pretty well at the U.S. Open. I have found a great freedom in approaching competition knowing I have enough choke for any presentation out there, and not being bothered with changing chokes all the time. The concern that my patterns would be too tight for rabbits and close-in crossers just has not materialized into a loss of birds in reality.

But, for most people, the SST set-up, for the exact reasons you stated, is tops.

If you're used to DT's, there's absolutely no issue going from front to back. The easy way to learn is, shoot skeet. Since the advantage on skeet doubles is tight choke first/open second, you simply go back to front. Do it enough times and it becomes automatic. In sporting clays, on a particular station, you get the same presentation each time. Which means you always use the chokes in the same order. Look at the targets, determine whether you need to go tight barrel first, and follow the same sequence every time. It's about as difficult as walking and chewing bubblegum simultaneously.

Trigger spacing is also very different from one DT gun to the next. Admittedly, some are impossible to use in cold weather if you're wearing much of a glove. Others will accommodate a relatively heavy glove. Or, you can solve the problem by having a ST gun for cold weather hunting. I have some of each. And I don't have any problem, when shooting either skeet or sporting clays, remembering either to go back to front, or to switch the selector on the ST gun.