doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French shotgun ID

Hi, I'm new here and I was wanting some information on a double barrel I just recently purchased. I have yet to determine what make it is.

It is an older one with what looks like French proof marks and the name of a french city (St Etienne) it also says grand prix 1900. There is what seems to be a date of 1908 under the barrel next to anouther number (serial #?)

I'm just tiring to find out what I have, and if what I payed for it was a deal or not. Also if there is and problems that I should be aware of with a shotgun this old.

Here are some pics, I took them quick with a cell phone, but just to give you an idea of what it looks like. as you can probably see it is heavily engraved.

I know these are fuzzy pics, but its all I have right now. I have wrote down everything the best I could make it out.

barrel flats
"DIDIER DREVET" x1
"CANONNIEHABLETILANE" ???spelling??? x1
"GRAND-PRIX 1900" x2
"6.5" x2
"1540" x1
"crown" over "F" over "C" over "A" x1
two ovals with a "crown" over "DD" in them x2
a diamond mark x1
"crown" over "PT" x2
"crown" over "PM" x2

barrels
"NON POUR LA BALLE" over "C 10KE" over "EUREKA" x1
"1908-12740" x1
"17.0" x2
"St Etienne" with standard proof x2
"MODELE DEPOSE" x1
"CANONE PLUBE" x1
"1540" x1
More standard proofs x2
"CANONN DE DURPIS" over "NARANTIE" over "?????? ???????" x1 (spelling)

Thanks for any help you guys might give. This is my first side by side and I would like to know some more about it b4 I go shooting.

Drevet isn't a name you see often, but from what I recall, it's a good one. I had a Drevet gun, very nice sideplated boxlock 16.

Your photos are indeed fuzzy. If you can get better ones, we may be able to tell you more. But here's what I can tell you so far:

The PT and PM mean the gun was proofed with two smokeless powders: T and M. Proof with M stopped in 1914. Combine that with the Grand Prix (grand prize) 1900, and you've got a gun made between 1900-1914. And that's pretty good on a French gun, because they don't use date codes.

"Non pour la balle" means "not for ball". Not a slug gun, in other words. Not sure when they stopped using that mark. "Modele depose" simply means the name was registered with the French government. "Canon plume" is an expression for a very light barrel. "Plume" means feather. Note your gun has almost no rib. That's the "plume" part. I can't make out the "canon de" part, but your "durpis" is wrong. "Garantie" simply means guaranteed.

Interesting gun. Looks like almost no engraving on the sides of the receivers, yet a fancy, scalloped back where it meets the stock, and really nice work on the fences (the leaf engraving).

Really tough to put a value on it. We'd need better pictures and more information. Such as, condition of the bores (bright and shiny, badly pitted, or somewhere in between), whether it locks up tight (take off the forend, grab it by the muzzle, and move it back and forth rapidly with a sweeping motion. If you detect looseness where the barrels join the receiver, that's bad. How bad depends on how loose.) Also condition of the wood. Any chips, cracks, or significant dents? Checkering still sharp or all worn?

It was certainly an above average gun when new, and the French didn't make much junk. (St. Etienne is where it--and most French guns--was built.)

Have a gunsmith or someone who knows doubles well look it over before you shoot it. It should be safe with "modern" ammo, but it's likely very light and would probably kick like heck with most factory American ammo. Light shells (2 1/2"--it will certainly have short chambers unless they were lengthened somewhere along the line) from either RST or Polywad would be the way to go. Good luck, and if you can post better photos, please do so.

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to work on getting some better pics.

To answer some of your questions:
the bore is clean and very bright.
It locks up nice and tight. If not like a new gun.
There is engraving on about 45% of the sides and pretty much everything else. All screws, trigger guard, ect.
The wood is in good shape for its age, the horn buttplate is chipped, and some frenchie put I guess his name on the left of the buttstock, Boolin something.
I checked the chambers and is a hair under 2.5". 2 9/16 I guess?

The Grand Prix 1900 means "Grand Prize 1900". They had regular expositions that were juried back then. Makers would submit their work. This model won the 1900 Grand Prize, most likely in Paris.

The Not for Ball is another way of saying the barrels are choked.

As Larry stated, they could use various powders for proof. I seem to recall that T produced higher pressures.

You can download the French proof marks here:
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/files/Damascus-Barrels_dot_com_French_Proofmarks.pdf

Pete

Checked some sources. The name is Pierre Didier-Drevet. There is some indication his son was involved in the business.

He held a patent for d'Eureka-Canon-Plume, Oct 10, 1899. He was located at 5 & 11 rue Villeboeuf, in St Etienne. He had won expositions in Paris 1855 and in London 1862, most likely for percussion guns.

Pete

Wonder if this might be the son's work. Didier is a fairly common first name in France. The "Eureka Canon Plume" certainly fits with the gun in the photos.

Too bad about the name on the stock, but sounds like a pretty nice gun from the description of the bores, lockup, etc.

Be aware that the barrel length is metric so it probably doesn't measure to an even inch measurement(unless of course the metric measurement correlated to an exact even inch measurement).
Steve

I am really glad I posted here. At first I really didn't know where to post these questions, (so many forums out there these days), but I have to say that you guys have been the most helpful.

After scouring the net for three days looking for a similar gun (I guess there is not too many of these shotguns floating around out there), I came across one on a Russian gun forum post I translated. That gun did not have the engravings or scalloped action, but was case colored. That shotgun was said to have sold for 2000 euros in France at auction.

Now to tell the truth, I got this gun off a guy at work who needed some cash for $350. It was his fathers, and other than that, said he shot it as a kid but really knew nothing about it.

I would have paid more for it, but I know from my experience with Mauser rifles, that anything in the stock, i.e. dates, names, ect.. would devalue it a lot. Really it so old The name in the stock, that it don't look carved, more like "pressed" into the wood. As shallow as it is I might be able to sweat it out a good bit if i refinish it, but I don't know if refinishing it would hurt the value or not.

BTW I hope to get a good camera this week for some better pics, if you guys could tell me what parts/angles you need to have a look at to put a price on it, or more insight as to its history. Thanks

I think I found out what this means. I found this pic by chance and it seems to fit. Just I know that there is one more letter after the N in "CANON"

"CANONN DE DURPIS" over "NARANTIE" over "?????? ???????"
"Canon De Surete" over "Garantie" over "Double Peruffe"


Other examples of DIDIER DREVET's work I have found, just not quite the same..

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naturabuy.fr%2Fjuxtapose-st-etienne-didier-drevet-item-347921.html&anno=2

and

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.ohota-ribalka.com.ua/phpBB2/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D48%26t%3D6679%26start%3D0&ei=70ooTIa5BIWClAe3g-2zAg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEIQ7gEwCTgo&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522didier%2Bdrevet%2522%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26ndsp%3D21%26prmd%3Db

Canon de Surete translates as "safety barrels". Often seen on French guns. Double epreuve is double proof, which means it was proof tested with higher pressure loads than a standard proof. That's a good thing.

Pricing French doubles is pretty tough. Good shots of the wood (stock and forend) would help. A better shot of the barrel flats--the underside, under the chambers--might help us decypher some more of the French. Good shot of the receiver to show the engraving.

You'll look long and hard to find a "twin" to your gun. Lots of French guns are pretty unique, at least as far as the examples that reach the States are concerned. The French never made much of an effort to export their guns to this country. Quite a few were picked up by GI's during WWII and came home in duffelbags. But with a very few exceptions--one being Manufrance, which was more or less the Stevens of French doubleguns (in terms of quantity, but with a lot higher quality), and another being Verney-Carron--most of the French guns we see in the States are one of a kind.