doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com True "Pigeon Guns"....

Anyone out there own a real British Pigeon or Live Bird gun?

By this I mean a gun proofed for 1 1/4oz loads, with tight choke in both bbls, no safety, and extractors.

Or maybe with a different configuration, but with solid evidence that the gun was made for the pigeon ring?

What about American stuff? I know this Parker is a documented Live Bird gun:

http://www.ivorybeads.com/site/default.a...&FSID3=2923

Any others out there?

Thanks

OWD

BTW: wasn't there an article in SSM about this?

At that price it appears it's still a good gun for a "pigeon".

I agree, that's alot of money for an American boxlock.

a very good friend has a H&H royal,circa 1896, that letters with 3 sets of barrels. 2 are for pigeon, the 3rd a field set, all pretty tightly choked. The gun had a safety and at the owners request I removed and built a filler plate. It is a lovely gun.

I have three which I use regularly; one each English, German, and US. The English gun is a pre-WWI William Cashmore "Nitro". The Nitro's were purpose built pigeon guns and were designed around a special 1 1/4 ounce 3 1/4 inch pigeon load. They utilize a unique action with exterior locks. This one is a 7 1/4 pound 30" gun choked F&F and shoots 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 ounce Kents like a hammer.

The second is a 32" F&F German Guild Gun with target rib, reinforced muzzels, and a gold pigeon on the trigger guard (with a bunch of other high relief stuff going on). It has an unusual very long, semi-beavertail forend. It weighs approximately 7 3/4 pounds. It shoots 80+% patterns with just about anything and was completed in March of 1939. Built as a competition gun, it was never equipped with cheekrest or swivels.

The third is a safety-less LC Smith Specialty Grade with two sets of factory barrels (lettered). The pigeon barrels are 32" F&F with a target rib. This gun has a Hunter One trigger that has never failed to make the thing go bang. Unlike most Smith trap guns, this live bird gun has a factory straight stock (minimal drop) and a splinter forend. It too shoots tighter than any modern gun which I own. It is an early 20's gun.

They are all very similar in weight and drop refecting the common conventions which were required in the ring. Great guns which I use regularly.

hideous recoil pad. forty five grand for that?

The length of pull now is listed at 14 1/2" so I suspect the stock was drastically shortened at some point in time. The dilemma here to me is live with it the way it is or get the stock replaced with one of appropriate length.
Jim

I have a very nice German Greifelt, made in Suhl in the 20's I believe, a 12 gauge sidelock hammer gun with nitro proofed 3 ring Krupp barrels that are very thick walled, so it will easily accept heavy loads, and .060 chokes in both barrels. It has wonderful small tight English scroll engraving all over, excellent old dark well figured wood, straight grip, a great gun. I donno what else this gun would have been built for except very high birds or long distance birds of some type.

This particular gun has been featured in SSM and the DGJ, and is in two books (cover of one).

This Parker Bros. AAH Pigeon Gun has been used in various pigeon rings by myself and Destry, himself, has pulled the trigger a few times. It was state-of-the-art when made in 1896, being the 24th or 25th Whitworth fluid compressed steel barreled shotgun made in the USA. Although S/N 83550 was the quintessential pigeon gun circa 1890s-WWI, times change and few SxS's are seen nowadays at live bird events because of the money involved. The absence of a safety was not definitive: The preceding S/N 83549 has a pistol grip and a safety, and of the 20-or-so of these guns I've seen and handled, most have a safety.

The first few year's production of the AAH Pigeon Gun were marketed at live bird events by the S/N 83550 gun's owner, S. A. "Tuck" Tucker, and also Capt. A. W. duBray, who had an AA Pigeon Gun (one of 5 hammer guns made in this grade, thus no "H"). Soon, however, AAH became a vanity grade, and next lost its identity as a dedicated live bird gun once they were offered in bore sizes other than 12 gauge. About 260 of AAH-grade guns were made from 1895 until WWII. The 28-gauge Parker Gun made by Conn. Shotgun for Remington @ $49,000 (or more) is AAHE grade (H = hammerless; E = ejectors).

As to the pad, some prior owner who used the gun for its original purpose did what he though was right at the time. Many of the knights of the trigger back when pigeon shooting was the national sport were large for the time, over six-foot, 200 lbs plus. Pictures I have of "Tuck" show him to be of medium build and probably 5-foot-eight or less (DuBray was 5-foot-five). The way the pad is attached to the stock on a plastic spacer probably shows the original SSBP pull to be the standard 14 1/8 to 14 1/4-inch. I had often thought of having a leather cover installed over the hard rubber pad (strictly cosmetic), which is a $250 job; as it is, the pull and drop suit me @ 5-foot-10 and 185#.

As to removing and replacing the original stock as one of the usual suspects suggests (rather than having a leather covering installed on the pad), all he needs to do is send Ivory Beads a good check for the appropriate amount--doing such an ill-advised procedure accrues to he who owns the gun. All the rest is just bluster. EDM

Hmmmm..... What's Ed got over his shoulder at this cold weather Pigeon shoot --



My Pigeon Gun is a Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox, C-Grade, 32-inch Krupp barrels with 2 7/8 inch chambers and .034" choke each side. Straight grip stock, 14 7/16 inch length-of-pull, 1 7/16 inch drop-at-comb, 2 3/8 inch drop-at-heel, weight 7 pounds 13 ounces --