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Joined: Dec 2006
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gjw Offline OP
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Hi all, I have a nice WP Jones BLE, but for the life of me I can't find any info on the gun. I'd like to find out what grade it is (if any) and when it may have been made. Here are some "stock" photos of it:

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/archivepicture.php?id=12439

The SN is: 16439. The address on the rib is 25 Whittall St. when Jones was at this location from 1891 to 1935.

I know the history of the maker, just not this gun. Doug Tate states that he is unaware of any model designations.

Can any of you shed some light on this gun?

Thanks so much!!!!

Greg



Gregory J. Westberg
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WP Jones was a successful gunmaker, principally to the Trade, although there are plenty of guns around with his name on them.
I am afraid that the concept of 'Grade' doesn't really work in the UK trade, only the real big manufacturers like Greener really had specific grades of finish or specification.
Your only hope would be to locate a WP Jones catalogue from the appropriate era, I have never seen one but I dare say they exist. That might give you an idea of where your gun lies in their range of the time.
Jones guns are usually of better than average finish for the Birmingham trade and I would place this on in the middle of the range. I restored one some years back which was quite extraordinarily highly finished and I suspect was a publicity piece for touting round the trade.
Here is a link:
http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/Jones%20BLE/Jones%20BLE%20Details.htm

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I have a late [ca.1910-20] Kirkwood sidelock, sold in the U.S. from their Boston shop. Stamped on the gun near the proofs is "W.P.J." I always assumed it was William Palmer Jones making guns for the Kirkwood shop for retailing under their name.

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Greg, it might be worth looking for that particular gun in a Webley & Scott catalogue. It has that look about it. Lagopus.....

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gjw Offline OP
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Hi all and thanks for the info!! I think "Grade" was a poor choice of words. What I ment to say is ranking such as "Best", 2nd Quality, Colonial etc.

I will follow up on some of the suggestons. I appreciate all the help!!

All the best!

Greg


Gregory J. Westberg
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Proof marks may help determine an approx. date of manufacture.
Terry


Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid,than open it and confirm.
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Southgate ejectors, I have a William Evans BLE, how can I tell if it has Southgate ejectors? I thought these were found only on SLE guns. Whatever I have works well. Including the single trigger, Wm Evans Patent
Mike

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Mike, here's the Southgate style ejector, characterized by the spring that powers it.


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Quote:
I have a William Evans BLE, how can I tell if it has Southgate ejectors? I thought these were found only on SLE guns.

Mike,
Southgate ejectors can be found on any shotgun from the modest to the superb.
It is dangerous to generalise on anything in English guns but as a rule of thumb:
Southgate ejectors pivot on a pin that runs through the forend iron knuckle (Spanish ones use a pivot further forward). On an Evans this is often indicated by 2 tiny slotted pin heads on each side of the forend knuckle which cover the end of the hole in which the pivot slides. On other guns you may just see the plain heads of the pivot pin.
The most common alternative ejector system is the Deeley box which is pinned to the underside of the forend iron a little further forward. You will usually see the plain end of the securing pin about 2 - 2 1/2" back from the knuckle and the ejector kickers will be about 1" from the knuckle.
English Southgate ejector kickers will be more like 1/2" from the knuckle.
There are a few other systems like the Ross, Perkes, Holland et al which confuse the issue a little but 9 times out of 10 you will be looking at a Deeley or a Southgate.
On a point of interest, even though the 'over centre' ejector system is commonly called a 'Southgate', Thomas Southgate was only one of several gunmakers who patented the mechanism and not the first either! The original idea is usually credited to Thomas Perkes in his patent of 1874, 15 years before Southgate patented his!

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Toby, what is the forend iron knuckle ? Is it the part that shows when the wood is in place ?

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