doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Czar's Parker at Julia's - BS or real?

King Brown, Capt. Jim Fender and myself, With the able assistance of Mr JR LaRue will be visiting mr Jim' Julia's later this week. I hope to be able to answer your Parker/Question....Squire Glenthorn, Whilst 'Serving My Queen & Country. in Her Most Britannic Majesty's Army,(And Minister of War,Kristine Mandy Profumo)2nd Batt.Backstreet Irregulars'I found that American'Guns' ( I'll refrain from differentiating between'Gun, Rifle etc.)were the most 'sort over' by The part of the Green Jackets Brigade that were,(at that time)in the Jungles of Malaya,the Forests of the Aberdare's(Kenya)and Belfast N. Ireland.The most sort after in side-arms was the Colt 1911.45auto.Next in Popularity was the Thompson .45ACP.M1& M1A1. The M1 Carbine .30cal.Of which a Total of 2,625,000 were built by Inland div Gen Motors alone) was really popular with "Good Guy & Bad Guys alike. The IRA used them to great aclaim against my Regiment,KRRC.Green Jackets in N Ireland.."Yankee" Shotguns saw 'Stellar Service" in Viet-Nam,I have friends from my days of working with Disabled Veterans from WWII, Korea,& Viet-Nam,who used(with Great effect) Winchester mod 1897s,W. mod 12,Trench Mods.)Remington Mod 870,So, my point being,American 'Guns"are,and have been in the past,"Very Well Thought-of.! My 'Old Man'When rolling through Holland& Belgium with the British Army,(Monty & all That!)Had a "Gun,Submachine,Cal.45 M3 (Grease-Gun)I did'nt hear any of his stories about how well it"Racked-Up" the Many 'Kills he made with it.untill a 'Lunch-Time at the Irongate Pub, with the Purdey Crowd,on my 18th B/Day.He loved that "Yank Grease Gun". I'm sure thet 'Geno', St Petersburg, has seen all the American Firearms that McIntosh & myself had the Opportunity to examine on our 'Clandestine' Visit to the'Artillery Museum' in then Leningrad.Mr Jurij Natsvalandze,Curator, told us of 'Many,Many American Shotguns and Rifles that had been 'Collected' by'His Army' from all overEurope from many years ago!Could this be moreCzars shotguns & Rifles?????I have a Lefever 'C' 12b 30" that was found in S Korea in the 1950s!Mr 'Q' Lefever, has his 'I' on it!!American "GUNS" are well thought of, World Wide.. CC.

If so ;), there's a curious linguistic point, not really relevant, but, well, curious. As y'all probably know, in the Russian language the word "czar" can be used as a prefix, meaning "the best" or "the biggest", like the Czar-Cannon and the Czar-Bell from the Moscow Kremlin. You can coin words like "czar-girl", "czar-sword", or... Czar-Parker (there's also an adjectice "czarski" with the same meaning). In the context of the problem discussed, there seem to be grounds for a lost-in-translation case

Humpty, seeins' as you're in Russia I thought I'd pass along some further linguistics for you to ponder.

Down here in Texas you can go to just about any Italian restaurant and order a Czar salad.

The US Constitution protects against illegal search and Czar.

In 1849 the Gold Rush in California was set into motion when someone cried, "There's gold in them Czar hills!"

If you are have cornrows in your hair, are unruly in public and resist arrest, the cops are likely to Tsar you into submission.

Has anyone run a "Tony Gauge" into the muzzles to check the choke dimensions? Not only that, are the ejectors fully operational? I can't see shipping this piece off to Babe DelGrego on a UPS truck for ejector repairs. As an aside, I regard Mr. Julia's comments as quite professional, and about all he can contribute. Thanks.

This thread has produced some fantastic information and some very interesting points of view. This gun, seems to me, falls far outside the relm of usual market. It could be a very historically significent gun or it could be a fake. I surely am interested to see what those voting with money think.

Gentlemen.When the word"Fake" is used,are we referring to the'Gun", or the additional enhancement to the "Gun"?? I have examined'A Couple of 100% Original'Guns' But the'Art of the Engraver" has put that Weapon into the Realm of 'Not Quite what the Gunmaker Delivered as his finished work. I dont think Mister Parker actually built a Gun to try and 'Dupe'any Client. And of the Several Ansley H Fox Guns that have Passed my Workbench. some with Provenance,(enough to fill a small Book)I'm sure all the 'Dirty-Hands' Craftsmen who toiled for many, many hours building the Classic Shotguns that today are fetching prices that 'Boggle the mind"Had no part in the 'Enhancement'/Decoration of these Wonderful,Historical Weapons! CC.

XC - "fake" can take a lot of twists and turns; everything from "improvement" of current condition to outright building of a new gun that may fool everyone to making/shading/improving of documents. Mr. Julia made a strong case for this gun being "intended" to belong to the Czar. Yet, "intent" is very hard to prove. On the other hand, this gun seems very likely to be one of actual mystery guns of the last century. What is that worth? The price range for this gun begs the most careful of scrutiny, research, and discussion. There is also the possibility that this gun's documentation was part of a practical joke that has taken on life of its own. I doubt that any of the craftsmen involved in the gun had any intent to "fake" anything,butthe interpertation of their work may be an issue. Fun to speculate, but I'm really interested to see what the money thinks.

My take on this gun, and I can speculate as good as the next guy, is that old Wilber had this returned A1-Special to unload, and he greased some well heeled customer with the "you can have a gun made for the Czar story." This gun has no special engraving, no Romanoff double-headed eagle, no Nikki II crest, and no rib appelation. Nothing like the Brothers P did for President Benj. Harrison. My bet is old Wilber had read the press on the Marlin pump for the Czar and with the spark that this gun had originally been ordered by a Russian Col. made the rest up as a sales ploy to hook this well to do customer! The Ulrich engraved Marlin had the Romanoff Eagle in gold on the right side, the Russian Bear rampant protecting her cubs in gold on the left side, and on top the Czar's personal crest (N II) inlaid in platinum.

The gun is a rightious A1-Special, with a replacement stock, and an interesting sales history.

Ok... when will David and the others actually inspect this gem?

Regards

GKT

Greg Tag, Email this pm.from J.J.Re-Scheduled"Date with Czars-Parker"....'Anticipation'!!