doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Big crowns and cavemen on prewar Sauer guns.

Here's page 13 of a Sauer catalogue(1907???) in which the whole page is dedicated to answer the common question of the steel type stamp found on German guns. I hope someone will provide an accurate translation.

Besonderer Hinweis zugleich zur Beantwortung häufig an uns gelandender Anfragen.

Seitdem die Firma Fried. Krupp in Essen für Jagd-Gewehrläuf einen “Spezialstahl” herstellt, dessen Elastizität bei hohem Gasdruck bislang noch jedem anderen Gewehrlaufstahl als überlegen sich erwiesen hat, und seitdem vorgenannte Firma “durch Vertrag” uns die alleinige Verarbeitung und Verwertung dieses “Edelstahles” zu Jadgd gewehrläufen übertragen hat, da taucht allerorts die Bezelchnung:

Spezial-Stahl, oder Prima Kruppscher,

Nun mögen wohl andere Stahlwerke - ausser der Firma Fried. Krupp-Essen, ebenfalls einen besonderen Laufstahl für Gewehrläufe herstellen, dem sie, oder ihre Abnehmer die Bezeichnung “Spezial-Stahl” beilegen.

Jeder Jäger aber, der für die Läufe seines Gewehres den Edel-stahl der Frima Fried. Krupp-Essen wünscht, möge deshalb darauf achten, das solche Läufe unbedingt die Aufschrift:

Spezial-Gewehrlauf-Stahl Drei Ringe Fried. Krupp – Essen
Und die Fabrikmarke der Kruppschen Werke(also drei Ringel) siehe obenstehende Darstellung, tragen müssen, eine Marke, welche auf “Jagdgewehrläuf” nur von unserer Firma aufgeschlagen werden darf.

Einen anderen Prima Fried. Krupp gibt in den allgemein gebräuchlichen Gewehrlaufstahl – Qualitäten, das sind: Krupp’s Guss-Stahl zu Kugelläufen und Krupp’s Fluss-Stahl zu Schrotläufen, an andere Jagdgewehr-Fabrikanten keine besseren Marken ab, als an uns, sodass also die Bezeichnunb:

Prima Kurppscher Gewehrlauf-Stahl
Als nicht zutreffend bezeichnet werden muss.

Evidently at some point the word "Spezial" was changed to "Special" and this example from 1950 may have been in the last group with 3 Ring Krupp tubes: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=151981163

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The difference between Meisterwerk mod.18 and other Sauer models, Greener bolt is hiden on mod.18.
Pegion (Taubenflinte) guns mod.28 (hammer) and mod.29 (A&D) were much heavier guns and the length of barrels 29 1/2". Probably 2 3/4" chamber on early pegion guns, but not sure.

"Evidently at some point the word "Spezial" was changed to "Special""
It was much earlier, than 1950. In 1930 Sauer catalog we can see thw word SpeCial allready.

This is a software generated translation...

Special Note also frequently parapet to us to answer questions.

Since then the company Fried. Krupp in Essen for hunting Gewehrläuf a "special steel manufacturing, has its elasticity at high gas pressure has yet been shown any other gun barrel steel as superior, and since then above company" in contract "our gun barrels, the sole processing and utilization of this" stainless steel "to Jadgd has transferred, as everywhere appears the Bezelchnung:

Special Steel, Krupp's or Prima,

Now, like most other steel plants - except of Fried. Krupp-Essen, also produced a special barrel steel for gun barrels, which attach to them, or their customers, the term "Special Steel".

Every hunter, however, the steel for the barrels of his gun to the precious Frima Fried. Krupp-Essen wishes, may therefore make sure that such courses necessarily the words:

Specialist gun barrel steel Three Rings Fried. Krupp - Essen
And the mark of the Krupp works then (three ringed), see above representation, must bear a mark which can be opened only by our company on "Jagdgewehrläuf.

Another Prima Fried. Krupp is commonly used in the gun barrel steel - qualities that are: Krupp's cast-steel ball races and shotgun barrels Krupp's steel to flow to other hunting rifle not have better brands from manufacturers as to us, so therefore the Bezeichnunb:

Prima Kurppscher barrel-Steel
As described should not be applicable.

Pete

Geno:

Thanks for the info on the Pigeon gun and also the frame was longer. Of course a special/spezial gun could have been ordered much like the Model 18, but I know Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl was available on the Model 18 and I don't think so on the Model 29.

So CJ, what is your frame length and what type steel stamp does it wear?

I had assumed the change from Spezial to SpeCial was earlier than 1950, but I really didn't have any idea? Maybe post WWI?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Bbls are 30" - 2 3/4 " chambers - no three ring marking on them , just Kruup Essen, no swivels no cheek piece, frame is about 3" overall watertable is about 2"- Greener cross bolt is exposed

CJ

Yeap. CJ, you have mod.29 "Meisterarbeit", it's not Meisterwerk, but allmost the same high grade gun.

Geno, have you ever seen any other mod 29's out there?

CJ

CJ:
I'm sure there are. Geno is correct and there was a Model XXIII as a hammer version of the pigeon gun with Krupp Fluid Steel and then in 1907(?) there was an a. & b. version of the Model XXIX(29) with the a. version being a Meisterarbeit and the b. being an a. with ejectors. Mr. Cate gives an A., C. & S. with the S. being the best. The Model A. had Krupp fluid steel and didn't have lower intercepting scears(???) like a Model VIII(8). It was the C. though that had the Krupp Spezial Weapons Grade Steel with Sauer's chopperlump variant, having some type of sensitive front trigger as well as lower intercepting scears. So the Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl was offered on the Sauer pigeon gun.

Indeed J. Stephens was correct and I guess yours to be an early Sauer Model XXIX a. if it doesn't have ejectors.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Just wanted to cross post this to show Sauer was in the Gründig advert:



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The Milford Company with Emil P. Gebhard at the helm was a U.S. of A. Sauer "Sole" importer thru the NY Customs House in the early 1920s up until at least 1925.

There were other "Sole" Sauer agents in other countries such as D.S Spaulding(& successors) of Cadena 23, Mexico, D.F. As most, this is quite an interesting connection and for the few hardcore Sauer followers I'll add a little info. I'd guess the era was in the mid to late 1800s and in Bristol County, Mass. the Sturdy Brothers had a jewelry making business which was absorbed/merged(or in direct competition) as the Merritt & Draper firm which manufactured a large volume of tortoise shell jewelry. Merritt decided to split the sheets with Draper and Merritt partnered with John Shepard making jewelry of all types while Mr. Draper selected D.S. Spaulding as his new partner. D.S. Spaulding made some advancement in making jewelry in the late 19th century and had a store in NY as well as Mexico City, where I guess him to have been sourcing precious metals from Taxco(if you are every down that way be sure to visit Taxco). In the beginning years of the 20th century D.S. Spaulding(successors) had adverts in Mexican mining journals as a hunting outfitter & Sole Sauer agent. In the 1880s D.S. Spaulding imported to the Mexican folks or peddled sporting wares such as baseballs, tennis "stuff" and bicycles, as well as all things hunting, in Mexico City and I think this to be the same "Spaulding" that offered all the sporting stuff here in the U.S. of A. I type all this as either in Mr. Cate's Sauer text or one of the GGCA publications there is a Sauer with "D.S. Spaulding" on it, if I remember correctly, and I think it was similar to CJ's.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse