doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com hopkins and allen

To Market Hunter;
I've read and re-read your remarks to me and to Keith several times over and If you believe you're NOT being a smart alec, your ignorance of the English language and how to talk to people is as obvious as your ignorance of ballistics and shotguns!

BTW, I'll be 74 years old, this coming Saturday and I've been a smart alec for most of those years. I do know how to recognize a smart alec. But, in spite of my tendencies that way, I try very hard to be a gentleman on this very gentlemanly board, you'd do well to try the same.

more info on the shotgun, sidelock action. so i think it was made between 1906 and 1909. i fired it 5 times today with factory load and felt stock play, after looking at pictures i think the stock was a replacement. it didnt fit well inside so i bedded the tangs in epoxy paste. maybe it will work maybe it wont. the only marking i can find is on the flats on bottom of breech, has a 1 stamped in it. grade i asume.back to some of my questions, 1. what would the psi for shells be in that era gun? 2. was the load i listed appropriate for my batavia leader? 3. while i appreciate all the opinions and info can we end the pissin contest and get back to my questions? thanks

Seems as though you either are confused by all the advice, or are waiting to get the answer you want.
I get that most are saying the gun is not suitable for any long term (or at all) use of hi-pressure loads, which yours seem to be, with that much Bullseye - (Scary as H.. to me, actually). As far as fixing looseness, take it to a good gunsmith and find out if the problem is locking bolt wear, pin wear, stretch, or......
No insult intended. You asked for an answer, my opinion.

yes getting very confused, i realize it is and was a cheap gun. not intended for mag loads, however i thought the bullseye load was a low pressure load. yes i would like to shoot the h&a. no i dont want it too blow up in my hands. 10-4 on the gunsmith for the looseness. i had it fixed once before i got the bullsye loads for the same issue. i dont think i am at all waiting for the anser i want to hear other than a safe psi load???

Pissin' contests go on here from time to time. Folks do get wet, but I don't think anyone has actually drowned.

Back to your original questions... Well designed doubles of that era typically digest 8500-9000 psi loads with little problem. 8000 or even a bit less might be better for many such as your H&A. There are some handloads that produce reasonable velocities at even lower pressures, but there are reports of squib loads with some very low pressure loads, especially at very cold temperatures. Breech pressure is only one component of the forces that contribute to wear and failure. A 7/8 oz. load at 1100 fps will recoil far less than a 1 1/4 oz. load at the same velocity. It's recoil (plus abuse, poor inletting, oil soaking, etc.) that damages wood... not breech pressure. I'm not sure if your Bullseye load is/was appropriate for your old Damascus Baker. But once it is loose, every shot give the parts a running start at each other, and the damage is accelerated. Even mild loads will do more damage at that point. It's probably a gunsmith fix to do properly, but the cost might exceed the value of your gun. There are temporary fixes such as shimming the hook that are less costly, or free if you do it yourself, and may buy you some time for further use. Depends how bad it is now.

A hell of a lot of these old doubles digested heavy factory loads over the years. I used them myself before I knew better. Tight, well designed makes withstood occasional use with little or no damage. Some makes were crap right out of the box and would still be crap if they spent the last century in a closet. But hundreds of thousands of fine old doubles were ruined because their owners abused and neglected them and shot them with inappropriate ammo. Some people are OK with that and until I become dictator of the world, I can't change that. But I can try to help guys like you who care enough to ask.

thanks for the help. i dug out some supplies and loaded s few in the 8000psi range to try out this morning, shoots quite nice,low recoil. haven't hit the patterning board yet. to see how they perform. i found a box of 1000 rem fig 8 wads in the barn so made 11/8 loads. i think i might order some TT buckshot for a varmint load.might have to re-stock an old 16ga N R Davis i aquired while searching my stuff i found a few hundred unfired 16ga hulls and a bunch of wads.worst thing about being an accumulator is i never remember what i have lol. thanks again gentlemen and happy shooting!!!!!

Jim Legg,

As you noted above that you are a 74 year old smart alec today, I'd like to wish you a Happy Birthday and many more years of shooting two barreled guns.

I see Dave Weber added a little birthday cake by your name. Nice touch.

Keith

Thank you, Keith. My birthday present was a Lefever H grade, from Mark Larson, came yesterday. Of course, I had to buy it for myself. My wife, Ann, just paid for dinner, tonight.
Thanks again,