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#181004 03/02/10 01:13 PM
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hi all, i just found this site a few days ago and have read over a hundred pages lol.lots of info and fine guns. i have a few questions too ask, although my guns are not in the "fine classic" category. 1st. i have a hopkins and allen double 12ga with steel barrels. what pressure shells was this gun designed for? i do a lot of coyote hunting with hounds and would like to try this gun on them. i use #4 buck, would a factory 2 3/4 non magnum load be safe? gun is in good shape and tight. i also have a batavia leader with damascus barrels, i shoot 7/8oz loads with 17 grains of bullseye. butt the old jewel is getting some side to side play on the face? can this be home remidied or do i need to look for a gunsmith? thanks for your time

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I don't think factory 2 3/4" non-magnum loads would be advisable to use in H&A doubles. Most I've seen are already loose which proves they did not withstand the pounding from whatever they were shooting. I have one 12 ga. I bought a few years ago at a gun show. A guy was walking around with it and offered it to me for $100.00 and I declined. As I walked away he said, "You can have it for fifty bucks." How do you say no to that for any sound and clean double? This past weekend, I found an original H&A buttplate at another gunshow, so I can replace the poorly fitted pad.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

keith #181044 03/02/10 05:23 PM
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ok thanks keith. i'll stick with low pressure stuff and use it on them pesky red squirrels.

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Without looking it up, 17 grains of Bullseye sounds questionable to me. Is that out of a book? If you are reloading, You can load any low pressure load with large shot, although very large buck probably isn't a good idea if the chokes are "old style" tight, on your H & A.


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I guess my question would be:

Why not? Is the gun going to blow up or something? Gentleman says it's got steel barrels, if the wall thickness is good and it's tight on face why shouldn't he shoot 2 3/4 non-magnum loads out of it? It's not like he said he wanted to use it for high volume doves in Argentina, he said he wanted to use it for coyotes. How many shells a year would that really cause to be fired? If the gun is up to snuff as far as condition and barrel thickness I'd say fire away.

Keith said he bought one for $100, I saw one at a little gun show this weekend for $300. They're not expensive, not what some folks would call a "fine gun", so why not use it and have fun?

And also why wouldn't buckshot be acceptable in it? I've seen orders for damascus Parkers where they were ordered specifically to fire "large buckshot" hence they were choked extra tight. It's lead, the barrel is steel, so the problem is what? He didn't ask if he could fire modern rifled slugs though it I don't believe.

I've got a Hopkins & Allen single shot I've killed a lot of squirrels with over the years using high brass 6's and it's never given me any trouble. I'd say load her up and give the coyotes Hell!


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hi again, jim legg the load is actually 16.5 grains bullseye unknown 7/8oz wad and a win 209 primer......... an old friend whom has passed away used to make them for me. no idea ware he got the load data..... Market hunter 5 too 10 shots a year would be high volume for me with the #4 buck. lucky me the h&a was free!!! if it fails im not out much lol. although i do like my eyes and fingers.maybe i need too look into a low pressure 1oz -1 1/4oz #4 buck load or find some lead F or T SHOT. BB is too small too penetrate well on these yotes at the 40-50 yard mark. probably fine on the 10-25 yard shots but dosnt always happen close.i've all the components except powder and i have a book on shot-shell reloading, and an old lyman press i might have do dig out and develope a "superwhacka" load for the old double crowbar. thank you for all the replies gentlemen

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Originally Posted By: MarketHunter
I guess my question would be:

Why not? Is the gun going to blow up or something? Gentleman says it's got steel barrels, if the wall thickness is good and it's tight on face why shouldn't he shoot 2 3/4 non-magnum loads out of it? It's not like he said he wanted to use it for high volume doves in Argentina, he said he wanted to use it for coyotes. How many shells a year would that really cause to be fired? If the gun is up to snuff as far as condition and barrel thickness I'd say fire away.

Keith said he bought one for $100, I saw one at a little gun show this weekend for $300. They're not expensive, not what some folks would call a "fine gun", so why not use it and have fun?




And also why wouldn't buckshot be acceptable in it? I've seen orders for damascus Parkers where they were ordered specifically to fire "large buckshot" hence they were choked extra tight. It's lead, the barrel is steel, so the problem is what? He didn't ask if he could fire modern rifled slugs though it I don't believe.

I've got a Hopkins & Allen single shot I've killed a lot of squirrels with over the years using high brass 6's and it's never given me any trouble. I'd say load her up and give the coyotes Hell!


Destry


Blowing up would be thoughtful consideration of mine, yes. If you'd care to go to the source, try this: http://www.alliantpowder.com/ You'll see that Bullseye powder is not listed as a shotgun powder because it's too fast burning. What you've done and gotten away with is not necessarily a good idea, or even necessarily safe on the next shot. That much Bullseye is not a recommendation, even in a modern shotgun. Please, everyone, GET YOUR SHOTGUN LOADS from established, tested and published sources. I don't want anyone injured, even smart alecs.


> Jim Legg <

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jim my book......... lyman shotshell reloading handbook 4th edition has several loads useing bullseye powder EXAMPLE>>> 7/8 low recoil target load...bullseye 18.0gr rem.209p ome rem.TGT-12 two 20ga.B.P..125" cards under shot. velocity 1209 pressure 6,600 psi. no i dont load but it is in my book with several other bullseye loads. is my data wrong or maybe you are mistaken?

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If you have it in that book, I'm happy. I had a friend who used to load Bullseye in 12 ga. with 1/2 oz. loads but I never knew where he got the data. I'm happy to admit to being ignorant of the data you have. I have certainly been mistaken, thousands of times, in my 74 years of lip-flapping. I've never looked into the data on Bullseye for shotguns before and my concern antennae went up when I saw your post. The pressure and velocity you have sound just fine to me. I'd still be concerned about using buckshot(really big stuff) through an old full choke barrel. Does your data say anything special about buckshot, relative to choke?
Thank you,


> Jim Legg <

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thank you jim my concern antenna was up too, thats why i looked in that book. not that the books are always correct, too be honest im not sure its a safe load in the damascus gun i fired them in. they are really light though you could fire them with one hand if you wanted. im not sure at all about buckshot size relitive to choke. in new guns i fire 3" and 3.5" #4buck through full or extra-full it gives the best patterns at max range 50-60 yards. close up you wanna be aimin dead on cause its like shooting slugs. im not smart enough to know why the buckshot size might be bad in the older full choke unless its poor metal or thinner barrel walls. the #4 buck is 0.24 diamiter in inches according to the book. you probably knew that. its kind off a whim too try the double on yotes i have better equipment i can use, so im pretty interested in keeping eyes and fingers intact. thank you for your time and effort.

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