doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com English Boxlock Classification Question

Recognizing that differences occur in definitions, I nevertheless have a question on the classifictions of 20th Century English boxlocks:

1. Can a high quality amply engraved English boxlock be properly classified as a "BEST GUN"? Or is the term reserved only for sidelocks?

2. If so, what British 20th Century gunmakers might have produced such shotguns?

3. Can anyone post photos of an English boxlock "BEST GUN"?

JERRY

Certainly Westley Richards made many high quality guns in the day costing as much as Holland's Model Deluxe.

The term Best was used as a sales "gimmick" to sell guns. Mostly used on British sidelocks, some companies made boxlocks of equal or more cost to the consumer. Here are two guns that were the best each company had to offer at the turn of the century, both boxlocks, equal or exceeding their best sidelock. The first is a Cashmore Nitro at 70 G, and the second a Greener Monarch Imperial at about the same price. Two photos of each.

It's tough to say. I've seen some very nice English boxlocks. Greener made some beautiful ones, as did Westley Richards and other British makers.

That being said, there are a lot of features a shotgun needs to have to be a Best.

I think these features include:

-Intercepting safety sears

-A screw-in hinge pin

I don't know if any of Greener's boxlocks had intercepting safety sears. I don't think Westley Richards' boxlocks had them.

I know Westley droplocks do not have screw-in hinge pins.

Engraving has nothing to do with Best quality. I've seen Best-quality guns with little to none. I've also seen "Best" quality guns with horrible engraving.

BTW: While British makers did use "Best" to differentiate their guns, it wasn't a hollow gimmick. It meant the best-quality that could be made, regardless of price.

OWD

Based om conversation and the reading I have done:

No. No one can post a picture of a boxlock "Best Gun". That is an oxymoron; guns with boxlock actions are not Best Guns.

Also, a Best gun is not: guns that were the best each company had to offer.

The phrase "Best gun" was developed within the trade to describe a level of the gunmaking art/trade; it is a description with very little room for interpretation.

Why would anyone think that a side lock is superior to a box lock?
Your are comparing apples and oranges.
If you think that the Anson and Deeley box lock design is inferior, as a rule, then you do not know any thing about SxS shotguns.
Each and every gun has to be looked upon as an individual.
But, I suppose that there are Ford and then Chevy men. My present favorite car is a pristine 1985 Mercedes 300 D Turbo. It can go from 0 to 60 in a day and half, but it always goes and I look damn good in this classic.
Same for my guns. If anyone thinks that my Diamond Quality Lindner Daly is inferior to a side lock, I have a laugh reserved for you. Same can be said for many British guns.
Best,
John

I agree with Mr. Mann 10000%

Some people here read too many opinion columns and take them for fact.

According to some peoples definitions of what a best gun constitutes, a 1870's-1880's hammergun could not be considered or ranked as a best gun. Thats silly too.

John really summed it up in his post. I've seen boxlocks by Harkom, Greener, Sauer, Lindner, Scott, numerous provincial makers both on the Continent and England among others that are of higher overall quality in regards to fit, finish, aesthetics and adornment that rival even some of the best and most expensive sidelocks of the day. Not wishful thinking here, but fact.

Dustin

Mr. Rowley....abra cadabra...POOF!!!!!

A "best" BOXLOCK....


And OWD....doody doody dooooo.. POOF .....A modern day Greener "Best"...

From reading McIntosh's "Best Guns", my understanding is that a Best gun is the best a gun can be made, without sparing expense. Built to quality, not to cost. WW Greener would certainly argue the superiority of the box lock design, and there are some Greener guns designated as "Best". The Westley Richards hand-detachable lock guns ("droplock") also get a nod as a best. Some people would throw the Dickson round action in there, too. I'd also take a Purdey hammergun over a Best sidelock by some makers. No, I don't think you can say "Best" is exclusive to sidelocks.

Basically, if the Brits use "best", it refers to sidelocks--other than a few cranky folks like Mr. Greener who specialized in boxlocks. But I think one can refer to a "boxlock best" as being one with all the bells and whistles, although not a sidelock. One could include top of the line Parkers, Foxes, Ithacas, and 21's in that "boxlock best" category, even though we don't generally do that.