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Forums10
Topics38,467
Posts545,116
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Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
1902 Recreation - http://books.google.com/books?id=lPAXAAA...;q=&f=false"Barrels of Krupp Genuine Fluid Steel. Barrels equal to or better than used in many guns costing 3 times as much. Bored on the same system that has made the Daly Gun renowned for its wonderful shooting qualities." I would guess that the tubes were made in the Sauer plant but wonder if they were exposed to the same craftsmanship and shooting performace as the Sauer's with the "Large & Small Crowns"? On another note, Heinrich A. Lindner's son Ernst Lindner was born on July 6th, 1883 and fell in fierce fighting opposite the Brits on June 16th, 1915. He entered the apprentice program and should have received his master's brief circa 1906. In 1904 Heinrich Lindner is noting as expanding the business and I can't say if it was regarding structure, machinery or both. I guess he was expanding in anticipation of his son becoming a master and the potential of another master inhouse. I can begin to see a small portion of the devistation due to the realization of loss of an heir in the gunsmith line, but not the loss of a son. In the 1903-1904 period does anyone have info as far as changes in Charles Daly models, offerings, etc?? Any note of "E.L." marks on the 1906-pre-WWI examples? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Some may tire of the continual supposition of the Lindner Daly marks as well as the why behind the Lindner-Daly doubles, but it appears that Heinrich Lindner's business expansion of 1903/1904, Ernst Lindner attaining the rank of master 1906/1907(guess due to age only) and the 1907 edition of the Schoverling, Daly & Gales catalogue are more than coincidence. Also some of the verbiage included in the catalogue is self lauding, but I think that a close examination of what is said may give insight as to what happened in the Lindner & Sauer shops. from page 5: "Charles Daly Guns have the genuine Anson & Deeley System action, Charles Daly pattern, which means that the frame is one inch longer that the regular Anson & Deeley frame, making the leverage greater;" from page 17: "Sauer Hammerless Guns are made with Anson & Deeley system locks, but with an inch longer frame, which makes the leverage greater. The lock parts are highly finished and the fitting is simply perfect." I'm positive it's been covered before about the frame length but to me this seems to closely tie Lindner & Sauer, who addressed mechanization circa 1882 and by 1907 was pretty much fully dependent on electricity. Also from page 17 on Sauer Hammerless Guns: "The boring is done on the most modern system adn the shooting guaranteed. And thanks to Geno it has been confirmed that the "Large & Small Crowns" denoted craftsmanship & shooting performance. From page 7: "The engraving is done by our finest artisans, by hand only; sometimes months are devoted to engraving the actions, while the other parts are being finished in the different departments of the factory. Every gun is tested over and over again until it shoots perfectly, which accounts for the good reports we are constantly receiving of the shooting qualities of Charles Daly Guns." The "Regent Diamond" had "a crown of gold worked in the action, the inside lock work finely finished and inspected with the greatest cares". I'm curious how the early "Crowns" found on the underside of the tubes with the "Cross Pistols" compared with the "Crown" on the underside of the "Regent Diamond" and if the "Crown" was to denote the mark of quality. Also considering the "Crown" over a backwards "E"B found on the underside of a set of tubes  and if of German origin along with the Sauer "Large & Small Crowns", would the mark of Lindner be a quality control mark as well as highest craftsmanship and shooting performance? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,257
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,257 |
I have never doubted that Lindner's actions were of Sauer origin.
I do think that that one inch longer action was a Lindner invention and Sauer complied. It was later, unless corrected, that Sauer added it to their product line. It seems to me elemental that it was strictly Lindner, as no other makers had it, at Lindner's time.
I have stated, in print, that Lindner was responsible for qualifying guns that went to Daly after Lindner retired and for a short time after.
When Hans and I began our research, few workmen from Lindner's time, in the gun business, were alive. But, we did have the opportunity to talk with a few. They, to a man, agreed that Lindner was a gentleman held in deep respect in Suhl. His home/workshop (see the pic in the DGJ) attests to his success.
I have thought long and hard about this man. He was an obsession for me for several years.
I have concluded that he was the consummate business man, taking every opportunity to advance his opinion, in product, on what was a superior and beautiful sporting shotgun. I have also concluded that he was imminently capable of producing that final product. Either under his own marque or that of Sauer.
Please pardon this intrusion on a serious academic thread. Passion dictates, on occasion. Plus, I am an old man !!LOL
Best regards,
John
Humble member of the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen (LEG). Joined 14 March, 2006. Member #1.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Mr. Mann:
Your comments are most welcome as with Hans having left us and possibly the craftsmen you mention, you are our source of parol evidence and I hope that you continue to interject vital clues. Had it not been for yourself and Hans, we would know little of the Lindner craftsmen.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,257
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,257 |
Mr. Mann:
Your comments are most welcome as with Hans having left us and possibly the craftsmen you mention, you are our source of parol evidence and I hope that you continue to interject vital clues. Had it not been for yourself and Hans, we would know little of the Lindner craftsmen.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
I am humbled by your comments.
Hans, my dear friend and consummate student of German guns, was my inspiration. This is evidenced by my encouraging his publishing his outstanding books, both available and some to be so. My tact was toward the men that produced the guns that we treasure today.
As a devotee of great works of art, I have included this man, HA Lindner as one of the masters of his discipline.
There is art and there is art.
Visual and otherwise.
His work is art of a usuable sort.
Great useful art.
I stand in awe.
Best regards,
John
rse
Humble member of the League of Extraodinary Gentlemen (LEG). Joined 14 March, 2006. Member #1.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
John, break in on any subject any time! You are one of the very few that I read and re-read and make notes. I just wish we'd hear from you much more frequently. Remember, those things you might consider to be insignificant could easily be very important and revealing to many of us. Thanks for everything you've contributed!
Joe
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Chalres Daly(Lindner) #1680 10 bore with Witten tubes which looks to have passed thru the Sauer plant:  Greifeldt #28736 in 32 bore that wears a "D" that looks to have been applied by the same craftsman as above on the Lindner.   Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
9/1924 proofed Daly  M.S. – Moritz Schilling or Max Schilling(Fabrikant/manufacture in Zella Saint Blasii 1907) but I'd put my money on Mortiz Schilling who along with Albert & Walter Schilling owned what stock and/or machinery of Valentin Christoph Schilling that Heinrich Krieghoff didn't purchase in 1904. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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