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3 members (Argo44, CJF, Jtplumb),
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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
James:
A pic of the side of the lock and the marks would be most beneficial but if the cocking indicators are of the blade variety and if the dogs really hang down it sounds like a Sauer Model 16-P with the Herkules Verschuss/Kammzapfrnverriegelung/modified Purdey nose assembled from stock. What's the pin configuration and are there any initials or non proofhouse marks that might hint at the maker. If post WWI and pre-1948/nationalization, it might be a war reparations example. If the components were sourced from Suhl it's one thing but if the longarm was sourced from Suhl and Lovena roll stamped, then I'd guess it to realize a price equal to a Sauer Model 16-P. And then again Merkel may have had a hand in it. Chopper lump tubes? And also what about 28.35" or 72 cm for the tube length? What about tube steel, is it 3 Ring Krupp?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396 |
Hi Raimey
In no particular order... if it was a war reparations example, why would it have the CZ proofs? I'm not sure what you mean by cocking indicators of the blade variety but what is there is a slightly protuding screwhead on the side of the lock with a raised line (blade?) that swivels once that barrel is fired. It does not have chopper lumps....will be back in the shop later this week and will remeasure the barrel length and make sure it wasn't rounded down and will try to get some pics to post.
I'm now going to find some examples of the Sauer 16-P.
Regards,
James
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
I'll have to study on at what level of completion would require Czech marks as I don't recall where reciprocity occurred. To what level does it have German proofmarks and maybe it was furnished in the white? But if it is non-chopper lump, that may rule out Merkel and with the blade style cocking indicator on the side of the lock and assuming it has the patented modified Purdey nose(and of course if it has Krupp 3 Ring Steel tubes), I'd guess it was a Sauer. I wish I had a pic of at Sauer 16-P(Purdey??).
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
A bit different from description 
Geno.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Geno:
Thanks and I did forget about the hand-detachable sidelocks. Here's a forced translation with some revision of my own:
"Sidelock shotgun
Model XVI P
With ejector cartridge cases and the new 'Hercules' closing'
The ejector shotgun has the best of English and Belgian shotguns, the hand detachable locks of the sidelock are designed to be removed without the use of a tool, but achieved by a left connecting bolt lock with lever handle. The existing palace(don't know) of the best material wear double Fangstangen(not sure) and cocking indicators. The entire lock mechanism is designed to prevent disturbances(pre-mature discharge) of any kind, gold-plated. Also, this weapon is equipped with a Purdey nose/extension and may, in its solid design, make an impression undoubtedly along with the best products in the world market are equal in every respect. The above model is supplied with simple arabesque engraving, or, as above shows, with a fine bouquet engraving to be an appropriate premium."
The above is subject to an accurate translation!!!
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
canvasback: Which nose most resembles your Lovena example?  Model XVI P with modified Purdey  Dictator Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396 |
canvasback:
Which nose most resembles your Lovena example?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse No doubt about it, it's like the Dictator, not the Sauer. Also it does not have hand detachable locks. James
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 165 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 165 Likes: 2 |
Re Lovena: I am the author of the Nowotny/Weipert/Faukner articles
in the DGJ. An article on Lovena is still on my "list-to-do".
The effort for this however is really big.
The last Lovena-workshop manager was still alive in 2009 (when my article on Faukner appeared /he is Faukner's grand-nephew), a
Machac was still alive in late 1990's),lot of the Lovena-stuff seen on this forum is of Belgian origin. I have the founding-document of the company ....
Seeing the keen interest and the info available could be motivation for me
to start with the compilation/collection of material
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
felix,
Welcome to the board. It is great to see you posting here. Hopefully you will continue to share your valuable knowledge with us.
Pete
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Yes Mr. Neuberger, welcome to our merry band. If there's anything I can do to prod you to compose the info, I'll do my very best.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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