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#174851 - 01/18/10 12:24 PM Fred Williams English Maker
Stallones Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 1500
Loc: Republic of Texas
I have acquired a very nice (I believe about Unfired) hammer double marked Fred Williams and IXL#9 on the locks and Laminated Steel on the bbls.Birmingham black powder proofs. The bbls are cyl and cyl. I have not seen a Fred Williams before. Any comments?




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#174868 - 01/18/10 02:35 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: Stallones]
LeFusil Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 995
Loc: Utah
Leighton,
I've seen several BLE and BLNE from Fred Williams. They all seemed to be the made to the typical Brummy standard, which of course isnt a bad thing at all. I can't recall seeing a "high" grade gun by this maker. I almost bought a heavy BLNE from Thad Scott, it was a medium grade gun (based on engraving) but it had pitted barrels so I sent it back. Your hammergun looks like a nice waterfowling piece. I really like the buttplate, kinda tells you exactly what you need to be using that old gun for.

Use it in good health.

Dustin
_________________________

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#174870 - 01/18/10 02:40 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: Stallones]
PeteM Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4506
Loc: IL
I found 2. There may be more.

1
Established in 1873 at 47 1/2 Whittall Street, he moved in about 1877 to 34 Bath Street. In the early 1880s the address was 33-34 Bath Street, and in about 1886 it was 34 Bath Street only. The firm appears to have closed in about 1886.

2
Frederick William Williams established his business in 1881 at 49-50 Weaman Street, Birmingham. Between 1886 and 1890 he moved to 32-33 Weaman Street, which became known as the Birmingham Gun Works.
Between about 1913 and 1917 the name of the firm changed to Frederick Williams, and in about 1937 to Frederick Williams (Gunmakers) Ltd. Prior to adopting limited liability, the firm claimed a London address, possibly Frederick Williams of 3 Broad Street Station, Liverpool Street.

The firm closed in 1947.

Pete

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#174875 - 01/18/10 03:20 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: PeteM]
Stallones Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 03/03/02
Posts: 1500
Loc: Republic of Texas
This is probably the Number 1 reference. It appears to have been made in the early 80's.It has one locking lug instead of two and
cylinder bore may denote early also. Thanks for the info.

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#174888 - 01/18/10 04:21 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: Stallones]
Roy Hebbes Offline
Sidelock
****

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 1050
Loc: Canada
Over the years I have owned several guns engraved, Fredrick Williams, they were as follows:
#5552 a 12 G boxlock,Engraved on the rib, Fredr,k Williams, Weaman Street, Birmingham.Both barrels cylinder.
#115919 a 12g Bar action Hammer,with Greener cross bolt. Cylinder and f/choke barrels.[Made after 1887]. Engraved on the rib; Fredrick Williams London and Birmingham, England.
#114153 a 12G ,B.L.N.E. Steel barrels by B.S.A.Profuse Engraving. Regret address not recorded.
The booklet"The gun trade of Birmingham"'published by the Birmingham City Museum, page 21 shows the,"F.Williams Gun Works,Weaman Street,printed from an old advertisement block.The picture depicts;A three storey factory with"F.Williams",in a mantel over the front entrance and on a plaque at the the building roof line ,"American Gun and Cycle Works".This building was still standing in Weaman Street in the 1960,s.[Adjacent to Webley and Scott]
The gun illustrated in this post is typical of the F.Williams guns that I have seen.Clearly Mr Williams was proud to announce that he was using the latest machinery to make guns and cycles; likely with the objective of reducing cost. This combination suggests that the date of this illustration was circa 1895.[ie; Fred Greener was in the cycle business at this time].
_________________________
Roy Hebbes

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#174891 - 01/18/10 05:06 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: Stallones]
HomelessjOe Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 8861
Loc: The Great State of Tennessee
Looks like more common twist barrels ?

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#174898 - 01/18/10 06:01 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: HomelessjOe]
Mark Dube Offline
Sidelock
****

Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 175
Loc: Ontario Canada
There was a group hosting a Fred Williams Appreciators shoot advertised on this site not too long ago:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post137549

I've come accros several over the years, this one is curently one of my regular shooters.






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#174931 - 01/18/10 10:44 PM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: Mark Dube]
von Falkenhorst Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 50

Frederick Williams was an English maker of premium quality side-by-side shotguns with premises in Birmingham and London from 1884 to 1950. In 2008 a cadre of Frederick Williams aficionados has formed in the interest of studying and preserving these outstanding sporting arms. Some of the uninitiated have referred to this maker as Fred K. Williams. This is a misunderstanding based on the fact that some Williams shotguns are marked Fred'k Williams (note the apostrophe). "Fred'k" was, and is, an accepted abbreviation for Frederick. Mr. William's actual middle initial is reported to have been "W."

Some of the finest guns made by Frederick Williams were marketed under the names of prominent London firms. He was a respected source of guns for the trade. Williams made both boxlock and sidelock shotguns, as well as hammerguns. Every Frederick Williams gun which I have seen was of fine quality. I personally own one of the Williams firm's last shotguns proofed at Birmingham in 1950.

J.K.B. von Falkenhorst

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#174938 - 01/19/10 02:34 AM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: von Falkenhorst]
smlekid Online   content
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 386
Loc: Australia
Mark your gun looks a lot like a Thomas wild Austral

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#174942 - 01/19/10 06:34 AM Re: Fred Williams English Maker [Re: von Falkenhorst]
HomelessjOe Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 8861
Loc: The Great State of Tennessee
Could you post a pic of your Premium gun ?

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