doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Auto&Burglar

Walt looked the guns up for me and found that they had no specific provenance. They were part of a group made for stock. Oddly, a few minutes before my friend made a deal on the guns, I had looked at them and was told they were not for sale. A few years ago a customer came into the gun store where I worked and showed us a 28 gauge A-B. I didn't record the serial number. He may be the same guy who sold me a 16 gauge NID Skeet.

Thanks for all the info but does anyone have or know where one is for sale? If so please Email me at lcsmithman@hotmail.com thanks Donnie

Operating totally from memory here but I seem to recall there was one other short period of time when an offer was made to allow anyone possesing one of the "Illegal" guns to register it without retalliation. I don't recall the date but it was some years after the original '68 offer. Does anyone else recall this or am I dreaming? The idea was I think they were trying to get as many of them as possible into legally registered hands so they could be kept track of.

2-piper, You may be correct...your memory is usually pretty good with regard to this type of "stuff", but I have never read where their was another amnesty period...at least with regard to the Ithaca A&B.

One other note of interest: The records show that Ithaca produced a fair number of A&B's...over 4000, however, no one but the BATF know how many were registered and are now legal. Several years ago I queried the BATF on the subject but they claimed that the software was not available to provide that information. I guess if one really pushed it and would pay for the software modifications and the time involved one could find out. Judging from the number that have appeared on the market there are probably less than 10% that are legally registered...and possibly only a couple of hundred.

Donnie, why don't you bid on the one at Julia's? It might go for a lot less than 5K...you never know with an auction.

The latest amnesty is the May 19,1986 amnesty for U.S. manufacturers. A manufacturer who had a receiver or parts kit, serial numbered, by that date, and had it accompanied by the proper approved paperwork, could later complete that machine gun and market it. I am working from memory, so correct me if I am wrong. Some time ago, I visited a Class 3 manufacturer and dealer who showed me racks of receivers that had been approved under the May 19 amnesty. I don't know the exact nomenclature for the receivers he had fabricated, but they were merely sections of steel tubing with some machining cuts made that qualified them as receivers for XXX machine guns. He had hundreds of them and claimed that completing these guns would be more work than he could do in his lifetime. A man with a plan. Nice guy and a serious gunsmith. What is the gun he was building? It's too bad that he didn't seek approval on a couple of hundred NID Field Grade receivers.

I saw one for sale last year with 24" inch barrels and a normal stock in really poor condition for $450. Definately was the correct frame, the barrels and stock/forend ? who knows. Though they looked "age appropriate" to the rest of the gun I passed because it just looked like it was too beat up and I had no idea if they ever sold these marked receivers with standard barrels and stocks. Any one out there have any knowledge of thesse turning up like this?

I don't know if it's been previously mentioned in this thread but Auto Buglars are really miserable weapons to shoot particularly in 12ga. I fired one several years ago and 2 shots were enough for me.
Jim

I have never held an Auto&Burglar, but I have fired a sawed off like that one I talked about in my earlier post. I have fired #4's as well as #4 Buck and 00 Buck. Wow!! If you are ever faced with that choice, do yourself a favor and stick with the one with the least powder!!!! It just so happened that each of the loads I fired were stoked with essentially the same powder measure, i.e., both were high power shells. I have to tell you that the recoil from the first round was so unexpectedly violent that it the inside front of the trigger guard cut a nasty gash in my right hand trigger finger. Of course, being young (and, I suppose, reasonably stupid) at the time, I wrapped a band aid around it and went on to fire the remaining four rounds!! Youth!! Ain't it wonderful!!!!! I have fired nothing but blanks in the one I currently own, but if I decide to fire it I think I will use some very low pressure 2.5 inch 7.5's that I have for a Damascus that I shoot regularly!!!!

I would be amazed if BATFE would tell you, even if they had the software.

They have refused to release data Class III items many times, including subpoena'd data. They claim (somewhat accurately) that such information is tax data and thus can not be released. The courts have supported this stance.

It was NOT an Amnesty. Congress passed the law (on an arguably unConstitutional voice vote) to ban all future sales of Machine Guns to civilians in the USA. In the approximately 90 days between passage and President Ronald Reagan signing the law, many manufacturers produced as many receivers(the legal part that is a gun) and filed the paperwork with the ATF.

There were also a bunch of "paper" guns that didn't exist in actual metal. That is a big no-no and pity the guy who now owns one of these guns. BATFE, if they can 'prove' it was a paper gun will seize it from the current owner without payment of any kind.

In 1986 an AR-15 cost about $500 and an M-16 cost about $600(+$200 Tax Stamp). In 2010 an AR-15 can be purchased for about $500. A pre'86 papered and legal M-16 will cost you at least $12,000(+$200 Tax Stamp).....