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Sidelock
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(translation of above - Raimey's)

"Model 201: over/under shotgun like Model 200, but better version with English engraving and nice walnut stock."

So 'English engraving' refers to Model 201, not Model 200.

With kind regards,
Jani

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Herr Rabbit:

Say it isn't so that you are now one of the converts??!!!!

Thanks Jani for the translation. I just couldn't find the correct conjugation, adjective or adverb.

Mr. King:

I'm not sure if the examples with the failing epoxy were during WWII or just after but they were being repaired in West Germany as early as the 1960s as well as later. Germany had lost so many of its craftsmen during WWII and and post WWII times were hard. So when seemly superior paste was available and it was a cost savings, it was used. For now I think all used it and it was solely on scope mounts. But as usual I'm in the info collecting stages and when I have more info I'll send it on. But just like Sauer, Simson, etc. the name Merkel was just a name and Richard and Hans Schuler could have been doing the work. I'm curious where all those longarms landed up that were purported to have been shipped to Russia.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Raimey,
Your last sentence would be a good question for our friend Geno I guess.
-Jani

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Yeah, that's who I had in mind but didn't want to drum up a controversy. I don't really care about the who and how, just the where.

I forgot to mention that in the late 1960s or early 1970s, NGS(National Geodetic Survey - http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ ) needed several of the best level surveying instruments, which were at the time made by Zeiss in Jena, or off components made there. The U.S. government couldn't deal directly behind the iron curtain so an indirect channel was established because the U.S. did purchase the instruments and I have used them. I posted this on some lengthy thread I'm sure but this reveals that there were exceptions to the rule.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Maybe I can't tell slipshod stamping after all. I looked at a foto of an earlier Merkel Freres, Suhl gun. The roller coaster appearance might mean they used letter punches one at a time.

jack

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It seems the French did peddle or purchase Merkels: http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=1317 . Regarding German made arms, I'm a little skeptical when I see the terms "Freres" & "Allemagne" as it could mean a gun of French origin. St. Etienne, Paris & Suhl are listed but I wonder why the terms were roll stamped in French. Then again the Germans did stamp English names for the English market.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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The Merkel of the topic of discussion was made under the VEB Ernst THalmann group and one of the craftsmen working on what looks to be an airgun in the pic just may have made the longarm: http://books.google.com/books?id=fTuND6H...;q=&f=false .

Also there are some interesting reprint Merkel catalogues especially the 1937: http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/historic-merkel-arms.php

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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video w/ Merkel ID stamping @ 1 minute runtime

I can't import a still image from this video but you can pause at 1:02" to see a Merkel Freres stamping. I can't believe this was roll-stamped; misalignment of individual letters is very prominent suggesting individual punches weren't even aligned with a straitedge or stencil. Done today with what's available is a good definition of expediency.

One must assume the gun in video to be pre-WWII production as we don't have a serial or date stamp. I have no idea about trade barriers between France and Germany by 1935 (Raimey's Cornell catalogue). I doubt that the Weimar Republic had what we would now call "preferred nation" status; perhaps the punitive conditions of the Versailles treaty were fulfilled or relaxed by this time. What is clear to me is that choice of language (Freres) reflects the choice of marketing target. Not quite in a league with Eibar (or Birmingham) who would no doubt stamp a gun "Stumpy's Gun&Hdware" for a price but certainly evidencing guns not made for domestic sale. I don't see (if indeed there was an invocation of this idea by Raimey?) the necessity of an international manufacturing combine with a finishing shop in St. Etienne making an end run around trade barriers but I suppose there's a possibility there.

jack

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Two contributions:

1.- I had a 201E of late 1970's vintage. It was a two barrel set, 12 gauge, coin finished,
with engravings of a fox and pheasants on the left side and ducks on the right. Really
miss it.

2.- During that same period (1978-1980) I worked for the local importer of Omega and
Tissot watches. In order to be able to export to the communist countries, the Swiss had
to generate hard currencies, i.e. dollars to be paid with, so they "peddled" merchandise
from behind the Curtain. I was offered Sellier&Bellot shotshells at the time, as I was
interested in importing them in. They surely did this with all sorts of communist products
including shotguns. JMTC.

JC

P.S.: Agree totally that in spite of their lack of means, the German craftsmen of the
communist era were first and foremost "German craftsmen", so the guns they made are, in my
humble opinion extremely well made considering... jc


"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."ť Charles Darwin
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http://pictures.auctionarms.com/4529174310/bill%20merk%205.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

Early seventies 201e @ AA. Script on right side. Other pix indicate worn CC rather than "coin" finish.

jack

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