doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Merkel O/U model ID and Value check

I do believe that rouge elements of the CIA smuggled many into the West in Diplomatic pouches.

I have a 1964 made Luxus grade 201EL, a very fine shotgun in every respect. It has the word "silberlot" stamped under the barrels. This word translates to "silver solder." I would, therefore, interpret from my gun and from Jack's post above that the "standard" 200 grade gun employed the "standard" soft solder barrel and rib joining method, whereas the higher grade guns, at least the Luxus grade gun I have, employed the higher grade and stronger silver solder to join the barrels and ribs together. My gun has what is apparently a special to this grade tiny English type scroll all over and a very high grade of marble cake walnut stocks, with drop points on the buttstock. I don't recall another Merkel with drop points. They apparently were either special order or reserved for the higher grades.

At any rate, here is pretty clear evidence of two distinct methods of assembly on standard grade and higher grade guns.

Raimey, not spurious marks so much as expedient ones a la your argument concerning a hypothetical French or Swiss conduit for tariff-defeating exportation. Although [badly] trained as a historian, I have remained pretty much a prima facie sort of guy and speculation on my part wouldn't be supported by much (or any) research. Sorry. I can see the gun and am most likely able to distinguish stampings which appear "expedient" from those done with more painstaking and more highly finished and elaborate punches.

Larry's comment on a price/quality level distinction (stamped on the gun) based on the material for rib laying is very telling about the pride of German builders.

Would the 201s (not the Luxus) have been cased after engraving. Currently looking at a 201e described as coin-finished altho remnants of case color are prominent at spots in the engraving and on the lower tang. The 201 is all ducks and dogs in the art dept. I believe. The distinctively "organic" action bar of the entire series--all lumps, bumps and mustachio bolsters--is both exotic and also just right somehow.

jack

Seems to me that all the 201's I have seen had game scenes and a coin finish, whereas 200's I have seen had a small amount of scroll and were case colored. One of my sons has such a 200 series gun. My 201EL has a coin finish. This is only from my memory of guns I have seen, your mileage may vary.

Now the French bit is unsubstantiated and carries zero weight but either Mr. Apel of GGCA informed me of the Swiss firearms merchant or it was in one of GGCA's publications. And it may have been higher-end Merkels. But from a pic of a catalogue I've pulled this with a glass for the "Modell 201":

Modell 201 Bock-Doppelflinte wie Modell 200, aber besserer(?) Ausfuhrung mit engl. Gravur und schonen Nussbaumschaft(walnut stock).

Odd though that the Merkel of current discussion has the "Outstanding Quality" mark but has the tubes joined with soft solder. At least the makers noted whether it was hard or soft.

Rabbit: does you have a quailty mark on the left side of the rear barrel lug?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes, this 1968 200e also has a "1" superposed on a "Q" left side of aft lug. Perhaps stamps are cheap and the silver solder process not so.

What is the function of this after lug? Strictly a socketed recoil lug? ". . . mit engl. Gravur"? Does that mean that the minimal scroll on the 200 is considered an "English" style of decoration?

jack

Raimey, "soft solder" is the standard by which most doubles are joined, including some of the very best guns very high dollar guns in the world. There is no connection to be made with the use of this term and epoxy cements. I don't believe Merkel ever used such a joining method. "Soft solder" refers to the industry standard lead/tin compound, which melts at a relatively low temperature, and cannot be caustic blued. Silver solder compounds actually contain silver, and melt at a higher temperature, and are not attacked by the caustic blue solutions. I have seen "jack-leg" repairs which attempted to use epoxy cements, and have seen scope bases "leveled" up after a poor drilling and tapping job which used epoxy to level and "shim" the poor workmanship, but I would seriously doubt that a company like Merkel would use it, particularly when the standard solder compounds are good performing products and their workmen are already trained in using them.

besserer = better

"jack-leg" Larry? I resemble that! I think we're all on the same page re: the solder processes. I find the English language stamps coming out of an eastern bloc country darn strange unless they are/are similar to importation marks. Incidentally, the "Germany East" marking on right side breech of a 201e is in a script font.

jack

I don't particularly want to attract the attention of nativists and xenophobes, but have to say that business about closing a Fox doesn't haul much water after closing one of these.

jack