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#157472 - 08/10/09 12:13 PM OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value
fnb25 Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1495
Loc: fort worth, tx
anybody have a clue how to put a value on a pigeon grade 59? it has to be one scarce gun. i can't find any evidence anywhere of any that have sold to come up with a ballpark value. i've been looking at the thing for a year at least and suspect it's well worth the price but it'd take a serious winchester collector to want it.

roger

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#157478 - 08/10/09 12:36 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: fnb25]
Bill Davis Offline
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Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 516
Loc: NJ
You are right! A very rare gun. A tough gun to sell however. 59's are difficult to sell in my area in standard grade. A mint one would bring 4-500. Maybe another 100 if it has the 3 winchokes. This is purely a guess, but I would value a Pigeon grade at $12-1500. Just my take on value.
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#157480 - 08/10/09 01:13 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: fnb25]
Run With The Fox Offline
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Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 4293
Loc: Michigan
Maybe this will help- I know Model 12's and Model 70's (the good ones that is) but am NOT an autoloader man- but went to pages 138-139 of my Stadt book on Winchester shotguns and shotshells- in 1980 he described the M59 Pigeon Grade as follows: "The pigeon gun was introduced in 1962 at $250.00 retail. Like the other Pigeon Grade guns it had custom wood made to customer's specs., hand-honed internal parts and engine turned bolts and carriers.--- Evidently, engraving and carving (wood checkering?) were not available on M-59's. The 1964 catalog did not list the pigeon grade M-59. Hope this helps a bit- RWTF
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Joe DiMaggio "The Yankee Clipper" (ship?) ergo- Bob Feller "The Cleveland Steamer (ship)!!

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#157499 - 08/10/09 04:08 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: Run With The Fox]
fnb25 Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1495
Loc: fort worth, tx
i did have stadt's book but sold it. this one is checkered. carving would have been something in addition to checkering. sounds like at the most tho it was only offered for a couple years but making any absolute statement on special order winchesters is risky.

i'd like to have this one. is a 26" IC. i love the 50's/59's but i hate paying more than something is worth.

roger

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#157501 - 08/10/09 04:11 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: fnb25]
eightbore Offline
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Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 11250
Loc: Maryland
If you could snap a couple of pictures, maybe we could give you an idea of whether we think it's a factory Pigeon Grade or not.

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#157517 - 08/10/09 05:40 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: eightbore]
fnb25 Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1495
Loc: fort worth, tx
i doubt they'll let me take pictures. besides, whether it's a pigeon grade isn't even up for debate. i can tell the wood and checkering plus there's the word "PIGEON" stamped right above the serial number that pretty much clinched it for me.

the only vaguery i have is how desirable they are and what one might sell for.

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#157518 - 08/10/09 05:47 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: eightbore]
Don Moody Offline
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Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 3205
Loc: The Republic of Texas
As stated, offered only in 1962 and 1963.
The only difference in a Pigeon and a Standard is the high grade wood and more coverage of the checkering pattern. They were checkered in the same pattern as the Pigeon Grade Model 50.
What is the price, Roger?
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#157524 - 08/10/09 06:47 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: fnb25]
Run With The Fox Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 4293
Loc: Michigan
I don't want to play the "Boogeyman" here, but as I have seen field grade M12 20 ga. "upgraded" to Pigeon Grade 28 ga. skeet guns, std. Grade pre-64 Model 70's refitted into SuperGrade M70 stocks and passed around as being a SuperGrade, also earlier M70's with 24" barrels shortened to 20" and passed off as rare M70 Carbines- some caution creeps in. If you have a friend with a real Pigeon Grade Winchester shotgun (most likely the Model 12) compared the stamped letters and the style of the Pigeon engraved on the bottom front edge of the receiver--see how close.

I realise, as Roger Rule shows in his great book on the great older M70- over the many years Winchester changed the stamping on the barrel breeches, also the style of script and dashes, ie: Super Grade markings on the magazine floorplate- So a scarce 2 year production Model Winchester autoloader, as Don Moody pointed out- you have very little to compare it to, whereas with the Model 12 Pigeon Graded guns, they are enough extant, plus fotos and factory ils. of the various engraving and checkering patterns their Custom Shop once offered.

I just saw a 12 Gauge Model 50 Pigeon Grade 30" Full sell at auction for $300- nice wood, nice condition- but way way muzzle light/butt heavy for an old Model 12 "pumper" like me. I have removed the lead plugs from my two M12 Heavy Duck shotguns to get back to that sweet (for my style of shooting anyway) slightly muzzle forward weight/balance of the older M12- I couldn't shoot your M59 or even the M50 pass shooting ducks for beans-hope you can.. Good luck with your investigation.. RWTF
_________________________
Joe DiMaggio "The Yankee Clipper" (ship?) ergo- Bob Feller "The Cleveland Steamer (ship)!!

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#157531 - 08/10/09 07:42 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: Run With The Fox]
Don Moody Offline
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Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 3205
Loc: The Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: Run With The Fox


I just saw a 12 Gauge Model 50 Pigeon Grade 30" Full sell at auction for $300- nice wood, nice condition- but way way muzzle light/butt heavy. RWTF


I would take a little of that for $300!

It must have been a Lightweight (Aluminum Receiver) Model, which, other than the barrel, is the same as a Model 59.
I doubt the gun Roger is looking a is fake. It wouldn't be as cost affective to fake one of them as it would be for a Model 12 or Model 70. And it would not be a easy as you might think.
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Ole Cowboy

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#157541 - 08/10/09 09:10 PM Re: OT - Winchester Pigeon grade model 59 value [Re: Don Moody]
fnb25 Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1495
Loc: fort worth, tx
just because one of something sold for $300 doesn't mean that's a ballpark figure. any decent standard 50 or featherweight 50 or 59 will bring that.

i'll say again and i've owned and looked at enough stuff to know, the gun's right. it's not faked in any way, form, or fashion.

Don, will pm you where this is and how much.

50's and 59's are butt heavy but i've never used a gun that feels so ill-balanced that was so easy to hit with. and it's the gentlest recoiling non-gas gun i've ever shot. my father has my featherweight now and after his neck surgery he can't shoot most 12's of any kind but model 50's don't bother him at all.

roger

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