doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Trading for an English gun, help.

400m When I purchased te gun the dealer told me it had no issues with the barrelas, and I asked. Now I can hear you laughing but this is a well known dealer and I would trust him. Like I said, I had several dealers look at the gun at the Southern Side by Side shoot and they all inspected the gun from one end to the other. I will name a few again for your viewing pleasure, Atkin Grant and Lang, William Larkin and Moore, Vintage Doubles. If there had been an issue or some doubt I think they would have brought it up. In fact all were willing to take in in trade. So why would they take a pig in a poke if there was any questions?
Now I do not claim to be the most knowledgeable person about "proof". If you can tell me how to tell if it is then I will look and let you guys know.
All I know is the gun has been gone over a lot in the last couple of months and wall thickness was checked and re-checked and no problems were found.

"So and so said" again. Sure, that's a perfectly relevant point when you're trying to sell it to AGL, WLM, or Vintage Doubles, and when you do, you should damn sure remind them of what they said. It's totally irrelevant when you're trying to sell it to someone else (Gunbroker.com), or when you post a question on this board asking what it is worth.



Again, irrelevant. Seriously PALUNC, if you believe that to be true, then the relevant question is why are you not trying to sell it to one of those three instead of to the general public via Gunbroker? If you wish to sell it yourself and get max value out of it, you've got to be able to answer the kind of questions that have been asked here in response to your query. "So and so said" won't even get you out of the gate with a well-informed buyer. If you bought this gun without knowing the answers to those questions...no I wouldn't laugh. Quite the opposite. I have experience with those you mentioned, plus many more. It is EASY to get bit, even when everyone is honest. With all of them, caveat emptor. With better quality British doubles of this age, you need personal expertise, and if you don't have it, you need help from someone who does other than the seller. It's obvious you don't have that expertise. That's not an insult, just an honest observation. Lots of folks don't, and you'd be surprised at how many well-known sellers in the trade don't have it either. This is a good place to get educated feed-back. Most of us that have responded are trying to help you, but you seem resistant to providing the data we need to do so. To start, you need to get the barrels measured and post the dimensions here. Then...



...yeah, the proof marks are crucial here, and that method usually doesn't work. You're clearly not familiar enough with them to adequately describe what's there. The only sure way is photos of the water table and barrel flats, and they need to be crisp enough to make out the marks.

The Birmingham re-proof (or new proof if the barrels are a replacement) will be easy to interpret and are usually easy to date precisely, as Birmingham instituted a date code in 1921 that ran until the Battle of Britain in 1940, and was restarted again in 1950. Given your characterizations of the comments on the proof marks you've received so far, I have to wonder about the expertise of those who have previously looked at them.

PALUNC:

Out of curiosity, is there a mark consisting of a crown over the letter "R" on the barrel flats?

I will get the information this week and maybe we can get this answered. It is marked 2 1/2" and so it still is. That tells me that no one has monkeeded with lengthening the chambers.
I did go to a friend at the club who purchases guns in England and deals with them on a regular basis. The gun passed his inspection. So to answer why do I just sell to one of the dealers? You know very well they do not pay the price an individual will pay.
So let me ask again, is Hussey that low on the pole that 11K is to much to ask for? Is the replacement barrels bringing it down? What you rather have, original barrels at 25 thousands or new replacement barrels at 28 or 29? Is Birrmingham quality that low?
Whoever did the barrels did a super job, they put the rib back on and engraved the barrel bands precise.
Lets wait and see what I can see on the barrel flats. And yes I guess I am half doing things, I had the measurements wrote down somewhere and need to find them, seems I have misplaced them. When I get all the answers I will add more info on the posting.
And I do appreciate all the advice you guys have given me. The discussions have been interesting to say the least.

It is the combination of the two, Hussey's status as a maker and the fact that it has been rebarreled. In answer to your question regarding wall thickness, I personally would prefer the original barrels at .025" wall. I just bought a Holland Royal built in the 20's and it measures at .025" and the proof marks and letter show that is how it left the factory. I like your Hussey, but do feel that your asking price is a bit steep considering they are not original barrels. The Hussey Imperial Mark Renoylds had last year was in very high original condition as another poster mentioned and was priced around 12K...and very properly priced in my mind.
Steve

Precisely, and that means you've got to step into the dealer's role.



No, but it depends on the gun. Dave K posted the link to this one....

http://gunroom.shootingsportsman.com/listing/1919

...and some thought the price too high at $13,500. I dunno, but I don't think I agree. I chew the fat with the previous owner/Managing Director of Atkin Grant & Lang, who is still active in the trade, fairly often. For a high, original condition Hussey Imperial, he gets more than that. The gun SKB mentioned in his post above doesn't sound out of line to me either.



That question is a bit premature, since we don't know for sure yet if the barrels are a replacement or not. However, as I said before, the answer is yes.

Take another look at this H. J. Hussey that OWD posted a link to earlier in this string:

http://mylandco.com/index.php?pageid=99&listingid=730

Attractive gun with two sets of barrels. New set of barrels proved in London, date coded 1980, with maker's name and 61 Pall Mall, St. James's address. Grant & Lang (which became Atkin Grant & Lang in 1960) succeeded to the remnants of the Hussey business in 1930. AGL was at 61 Pall Mall 1976-1980. So, new barrels by the maker in 1980. Also has original barrels, now sleeved, re-proved London, also date coded 1980, so the original barrels were probably sleeved by the maker at the same time the new barrels were made. Asking $6,950. I don't claim to know, but OWD posted that it's been for sale for quite a while. Strikes me as a fair price. If an otherwise nice vintage British gun doesn't have original barrels in sound condition, new barrels by the maker are the best you can hope for.

IF yours turns out to have replacement barrels, since we know that it has Brum marks on the flats, they obviously can't be by the maker, meaning it would likely be worth even less.



The market says original barrels, hands down.

Have we established that a Hussey is supposed to be wearing London proofs...who made these guns for Hussey ?

I believe that the owner of the #1 gun stated that his gun is London proofed. They could very well have originally been made in Birmingham and proofed in London, kinda hard to say.
Steve

While we got both guns here...why couldn't we see proofs on each gun ?

HJ also made guns and struck the barrels on my piece and left his initials. Ken Duglan and I were talking about this at the Southern and agreed that nobody but Hussey would have stamped the barrels ''HJH.''