April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Who's Online Now
7 members (JBG, griz, Little Creek, SKB, 2 invisible), 1,126 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,445
Posts544,848
Members14,406
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Came across a self-opening sidelock Defourney. Neat gun.

Check out the name on the bbls:



I know Hradec-Kralove is a town/area in the Czeck Republic.

But what about the name with the J. Holecek? Is that a retailer's name? Any ideas?

And does anyone see a date in the proof marks? I don't have my reference materials handy.



Thanks

OWD


Good Gun Alerts & more:

www.DogsandDoubles.com
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775
Likes: 183
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775
Likes: 183
J. Holecek in Hradec Kralove was a student of the Churchill tubes, length & rib, and possibly Churchill style, in the Czech Republic and was along the same lines as Faukner, Fuckert, Nowotny, Roedl, Wenisch and Lovena(some combo of its 3 owners). I knew that A. Machac was a firearms merchant for Fs. Dumoulin & Cie and knew that Holecke cottoned to the Defourny assisted opener, but didn't realize Holecek ordered/sourced from Belgium at minimum "in the white" or finished.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/27/09 08:15 PM.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
OWD,

The gun was proofed in 1950. Louis Couchant was the controller of proof. I can't make out the barrel weight.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Defourney's were around from 1894 - 1968
F. Dumoulin & Co. was in business from 1908-1968.


Pete

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,991
Likes: 402
SKB Online Content
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,991
Likes: 402
How about some pictures of the rest of the gun? The barrels look nice and all......


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

Here for the meltdowns
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Trade them for your H&H!

Ha- I've seen a few Defoureny self-opening boxlocks. This is the first sidelock I've seen by them.

It's a self-opener like a Beesley/Purdey, but it's tripped/cocked/etc in a much different way.

I'll post some pics once I get inside the gun.


OWD


Good Gun Alerts & more:

www.DogsandDoubles.com
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775
Likes: 183
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775
Likes: 183
OWD:

Is the tube length near 25"? Also what is the mark in a circle atop a number(50??) next to the "Crowned" "ELG" in an oval on the underside of the right tube? The name is gold is almost identical to what one would see on a Frantisek Faukner. These were small shops with say 1/2 dozen craftsmen and probably post WWI, and definitely post WWII, they were sourcing components from Belgium. The shops yearly output of inhouse manufacture was probably on the order fo 20 guns/year. Some Belgian sourced examples have Poldi tubes, that look to have been sent to Belgium and then experienced final proof in the Czech Republic.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/27/09 11:30 PM.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Thanks for the info. I'll post more pics soon.

There are two set of bbls - 16g & 12g. The 16s are short - under 25". The 12s are around 27"- 28". We weighed the bbls, Both sets are in within a few grams of their proof weights (probably just scale discrepancies).

BTW: wasn't Czechoslovakia commie by 1950?

I wonder who would be buying nice SxSs there at this time? Seems odd.

Does anyone have any insights into the commercial/economic culture of Czechoslovakia right after WW2?

Did they practice a commie-lite style of government, with privately-owned shops coexisting with state-run institutions?

Once more thing - what can you guys tell me about Lovena?

Thanks


OWD

Last edited by obsessed-with-doubles; 05/28/09 09:06 AM.

Good Gun Alerts & more:

www.DogsandDoubles.com
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 1
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 1
these guns are about as fine as you're likely to get. just look at pp. 47-61 of current dgj. high ranking commies had plenty to money to throw about.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775
Likes: 183
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775
Likes: 183
Originally Posted By: obsessed-with-doubles


Once more thing - what can you guys tell me about Lovena?



I was hoping that someone would have additional info. Janecek of Praha seems to be somehow involved. Take this with a couple grains of salt as info is somewhat difficult to find or vet. But circa 1930 F. Janccek had facilities in Reichenberg and Praha and was somehow connected to Lovena. I can’t say if F. Janccek/Janecek/Jancek’s Lovena was one in the same but there are some catalogues for sale:
Lovena Büchsenmacher-Fachunternehmungen from http://www.ilab.org/db/book2445_A%202414.html .

If it was Frantisek Janecek, he was born in Klaster in January 1878 and served in the Austro-Hungarian Army duing WWI and transfered for a brief stint in the Czechoslovakian Army in 1919 before founding a percision tool & die shop in Mnichovo Hradiste, which failed and sent him back to making weapons, ammo and transport vehicles in Prague. There must have been some sort of conneciton.

Lovena appears to have migrated toward airguns, auto components, springs, etc.:
http://www.lovena.vyrobce.cz/
http://www.spcr.cz/en/dynamic/clen_detail.php?vyrobek=361100&sel=1 (select "Production" to see ammo & weapons")

At some point Lovena had a warehouse in Ostrava, and possibly other locations, but became a People’s Cooperative for Gun making/Rifle making, previously being a "Hunting Arms Dealership" or firearms merchant which may explain the guns made in Belgium. Early on they seemed to have sourced components from England.

From what little I know of it, the monetary assets of the makers were commandeered by the State. Possibly for a statue amount of time the State may have allowed the original makers, or their heirs and assigns, to maintain their shop and continue production. The in the 1950s or 1960s it appears to have been nationalized and headed in the direction of a Communist people's cooperative.

In the 1960s and 1970s, orders for new cutlery and guns were taken at the various satellite offices, possibly in other cities beside Prague such as Plzen, and processed at the Lovena facility at the supervision of a master of sorts. Small tasks such as sharpening and repair were performed at the satellite shops. A copy of the "Czechoslovak Cooperator" from the 1960s or 1970s possibly would shed some light on the subject.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/28/09 11:53 PM.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 13
Raimey-

Thanks for the info. Great stuff.

OWD


Good Gun Alerts & more:

www.DogsandDoubles.com
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.081s Queries: 35 (0.056s) Memory: 0.8569 MB (Peak: 1.8989 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-04-20 13:52:59 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS