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Sidelock
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Raimey and Ken, thanks for the great info.

I have-------

T. Golcher hammer gun , ca.1890, #2403, K.S.---Lindner marks
C. Overbaugh hammer gun, ca. late 1880s, #3744, R.S.--Lindner marks
Daly hammerless, 11,574, dated 8/24, M.S.---- no Lindner marks


Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 05/23/09 10:49 AM.
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A 1932 Daly example at Cabelas, http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11653 (3rd colum & 3rd row), with what looks to be the initials of "E.K." which would be for Emil Klett. Then there's the initials "F.A." which is somewhat odd and perplexing as in the 1930s it could be for the following:
Franz Adamy(they might have had plenty of work)
Fritz Albrecht
Franz Amthor(barrel maker)
Fridolin Anschutz(I don't think it was him). And then the letters "Sl" who was probably the tube source. With the "Made in Prussia" stamp, I'm curious if the frame was sourced from old stock.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/23/09 08:35 PM.
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SL was a trade mark for "Syndicat Liégeois pour la fabrication des armes de guerre" ( Liege Syndicate for the production of arms of war) . It was established in 1884. As the name implies it was not a true company was composed of several makers:
Jules ANCION & Co.
DRESSE, LALOUX & Co.
Auguste FRANCOTTE.
PIRLOT & FRESART

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20s/a%20syndicat%20liegeois%20gb.htm

Pete

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Thanks Peter. Revdocdrew had brought that to my attention before. I've seen pattern welded tubes with the same stamp. I would have guessed the tubes to have been sourced locally. So is it a 3 cornered deal with Krupp/Syndicat Liégeois pour la fabrication des armes de guerre/Daly contractor/source? Have you seen any other "Sl" tubes with Krupp steel?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Raimey,

I can not recall seeing them.

Pete

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Peter:

Now that I am looking for the "Sl" mark it seems to surface quite often. The longarm of question with the "Sl" mark is a double rifle in 7X57mm proved in March of 1925 and is the subject of an article in "DGJ" Spring 2000, Vol. 11, Issue 1, page 144. It is a O/U double rifle with the stamp of O. Geyger's of Berlin. I'm relatively sure it was sourced from Suhl and maybe from one of the Schulers. Others longarms in the article have Boehler tubes and I expect to see Roechling and others. Not to degrade the Liege based "Sl" by any means, but would it have sold as well in Berlin or do you think it was the maker or firearms merchant that made the difference and not the tube type? If "Sl" is not for the Liege conglomerate, there are very, very few German options.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Raimey,

I think the sportsman of the day only cared about style/price/name on the gun. I doubt many understood the trade marks any better than sportsman do today.

I believe there was a huge international market in place. Makers sourced tubes, actions, guns from where it made sense and profit at the moment. A 1910 Beretta catalog, in Italian, I own is loaded with WC Scott guns. By the mid 1920's they did not have any WC Scott guns in their catalog. In the early 1930's they had barrels from Belgium and England. By 1939 they only had barrels by Krupp.

The trouble with trade marks is that they were only registered in a specific country for a specific time frame. Everything has to match for them to make sense. I could have suggested that HS was Henri Sauveur & Sons, but time frame did not fit. This is especially true with just initials.

Pete

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Thanks PeteM. But without a doubt it is the same mark on all examples and it holds that same position on the tube.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Below is a chart that correlates the Prussian Daly barrel initials with the (approximate) dates of manufacture.

Initials Make of Gun Maker Mark Date Range Serial #s
E.W. Daly None circa - 1876 7

L.G or E.G Daly None circa - 1878 105

K.S. Daly Lindner (Crown) circa 1880 - 1885 2015, 2370, 2463, 2568

A.B Daly Lindner (Crown) circa 1885 - 1890 2706, 3551, 3665

E.E. Daly Lindner (Crown) circa 1886 2929, 3044

R.S. Daly Lindner (Crown) circa 1888 3342

J.W. Daly Lindner (Crown) circa 1890 - 1892 3646, 3994

J.W. Daly Lindner (HAL) circa 1892 - 1900 264, 439, 676, 766, 792

R.S. Daly Lindner (HAL) circa 1892 - 1915 270, 300, 361, 380, 458, 584, 586, 650, 1092, 1109, 1560, 1586, 1650, 1655, 1730, 2048, 2138, 2158, 2362, 242X, 2437, 2463, 2479

M.S. or S.W. Daly Unknown Aug 1924 11574
[img]http://[/img]



I'll try and clean up the table in a bit - it is a little hard to read in its current format.

Ken

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Nice effort Ken. The last one with "M.S." is probably Moritz Schilling and from Schuler. The V.C. Schilling example on another current thread is interesting in that it has the Lindner type forend and from what I can gather had H. Klett(forge/tube maker) and J. Heinrich Schilling being subs. So with that said are there any other indications that the typical forend latch as caught with a sharp eye by Mr. Hallquist on the V.C.S. example was specifically sourced from Schilling? I could very easily be wrong but either H. Schilling was involved with the heirs of V.C. Schilling or V.C. Schilling sourced the longarm from J. Heinrich Schilling. Also was H.A. Lindner the origin of where his stamp of approval would be as well as the contractor/filer/fitter stamp would be?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/25/09 05:59 PM.
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