doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Speaking of Golcher....

sgh:

It appears that the "H.KLT" is overstamped on a "C" facing the other way. Are there any initials on the underside of the tubes near the lower rib just ahead of the flats?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It's certainly not unusual for a Lindner gun to be underbored. Mine is a 13/1 gun--apparently not messed with much in terms of honing etc, because the bores still measure about .717, which is .012 underbore for a 12ga. Have seen the same thing quite frequently on other older German guns. Of course a 10ga with 12ga bores is way more serious underboring than that.

Larry, we often see British doubles with different bore diameters. I had a Hollis Bentley and Playfair with 12 and 13/1 bores. Thinking this odd, I asked one of the British well known gunsmiths about it. He said it was not uncommon and that he had even seen it on Boss etc. guns.

I have a great deal of confidence in the probability that the "H.KLT" initials were administered by either August Heinrich Klett of Suhl or Heinrich Christoph Keltt of Zella St. Blasii who stayed deep in tube making until the late 1920s with the addition of "Sohne" to the title with Heinrich Louis Klett who migrated to stocking. True Lindner's stamp of approval isn't there, but the components seem to have been sourced from the same craftsmen. H.A. Lindner may have been the go-between or brokered the deal for Golcher to obtain the components. The U.S. of A. was the market; the craftsmen of Suhl, or Zella St. Blasii & Mehlis, possessed the talent and H.A. Lindner was valve by which the product and funds could flow. Some sources give that Lindner may have made very few of his products. If this example is void of any Lindner marks it may very well support that theory and it is the model in Lindner's mind coupled with the capability of the craftsmen in Suhl that allowed for the end product. Lindner's stamp could be viewed as a seal of approval as well as a tracking system for being paid. So the treasure that all Lindner aficionados long for is actually a product of the craftsmen of the cottage industry of Suhl, including Zella St. Blasii and Mehlis, with H.A. Lindner as the conductor. But, but the conundrum herein lies with the Klett stamp on the watertable of this example only.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellendr
yes the the overstamped letter is a reverse c, there are no markings on the underside of the brls only the number on the flats

Thanks. With the tubes being devoid of initials, it may very well support the argument that the initials are a tracking system for begin compensated. Your example provides some insight to some possibilities of the craftsmen for the Daly and Lindner doubles. Lindner didn't perform the final inspection on this example and I'm even more curious if Klett did the final fitting or was just involved in the barrels.

As a side note, the Klett clan began making weapons in the latter part of the 16th Century and have had grinding wheels/machines and boring devices ever since. I don't know how many branches are on the Klett family tree, but Helmut Klett, an apprentice at the Adamy establishment prior to WWII, is purported to have been the last Klett gunmaker in Suhl before departing after WWII.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thank you for the information on the marks

regards
SGH

Daryl, I've also seen that on British doubles. My Lindner Daly is marked 13/1 on both barrels and in fact, bore diameter is about 001-002 apart.

Some sources give that Lindner may have made very few of his products. If this example is void of any Lindner marks it may very well support that theory and it is the model in Lindner's mind coupled with the capability of the craftsmen in Suhl that allowed for the end product. Lindner's stamp could be viewed as a seal of approval as well as a tracking system for being paid. So the treasure that all Lindner aficionados long for is actually a product of the craftsmen of the cottage industry of Suhl, including Zella St. Blasii and Mehlis, with H.A. Lindner as the conductor.

The above was a part of Raimey's post.
I have no argument with this and have publish such in the DGJ.

But, one must recognize that Lindner did have a gun making business and produced some near 4000 world class SXSs under his marks.

It is true that he outsourced forgings, mostly from Sauer, and parts from the best in the area. BUT---the coupling of these parts with his workmen's highest standards of finish, paved the way for him to be the man in Germany that Daly trusted to supply the best of the best for the most discerning of American shooters.
Damned if I can fault Mayback for outsourcing some parts to be used in a fairly decent automobile.:}
Best,
John
PS---Welcome Stephen, my friend.

Mr. Mann:

I too concur with what you state and by no means detract from the genius of the Lindner gunmaking folk. For easier math say he produced 4500 longarms and worked from 1885 to 1915, 30 years. So on the average that's 3 per week. I don't see how he could do it with a small workshop say with 5 men or so. He just about had to source components in the white from the craftsmen of Suhl and surrounding areas. Lindner, with his brilliant mind and every peering eyes, set the bar high and the craftsmen of Suhl rose to the occasion. If the stamped initials were the same on most examples, I would say he had assembled a team of sorts. But there are several sets initials; therefore, he sourced possibly the whole of Suhl. It is these unsung craftsmen that also deserve at least some acknowledgment.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse