doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com American Classics - Your Take

I am completely out of the American double game nowadays, sold my last to a buddy/customer. It was one I was saving to upgrade, 16 ga sterlingworth 28" bbls and ejectors, just about 6 lbs. A very nice handling little gun. Were I to stray again, I think only a Lefever or small bore Fox could tempt me. Just one guys opinion.
Steve

Mark Donohue had 20 victories in three seasons with AMC in Trans-Am and took the western 400 in 1973 in an AMC. Anyone who says they never had a cohesive product offering has never been lined up next to a well prepped 390 AMX on a strip during bracket night, or isn't old enough to remember the red, white and blue Donohue AMX/Javelin cars in trans-am. Cohesive enough to be competitive in both realms (Trans-Am and NASCAR) is pretty damn impressive. If you want to throw in how much a hemi superbird is worth today (never mind how they ALL finished behind the Fords in actual races) keep in mind that anything with a hemi today is worth a whole lot less now than it was three years ago. A lot less.
The gold medal for trapshooting was won IN LONDON, in 1912 by an AMERICAN using a LeFever. Don't know where the Purdeys and Bosses placed, but, like they say, does it really matter?
Cohesive is, as cohesive does, it seems to me.

Using an old gun for putting game on the table is one thing, but, consider that some folks consider "using" a gun to be more like 6000 rounds a month. I don't know anyone who can say they use an 80-100 year old double gun for that kind of use. I do know folks who average that number of rounds in their guns.

They don't use old doubles.

Best,
Ted

Well Ted I'm not sure what your point is but those old boys shooting 6000 rounds a month aren't shooting small bore game guns either which I thought this discussion is about.

Anna Nicole is 83 years old. She maintains her voluptuous figure by eating an average of 1600 rounds per month. Since she got her new prom dress 15 months ago, she's gobbled up over 20,000 rounds. Over 2,000 of those were Remington Nitro 27's. Don't know how many 1 1/4 ounce paper Super X's she ate in the marshes before she came to live with me, but she's done her new owner right proud on the tournament circuit. Her triggers have balked a couple of times at the powder residue that got under them, but she's never doubled....unlike some of the Kreighoff and Perazzi company she keeps. Feel free to check in on her from time to time if you'd like a peek at her diary....we'll see how she holds up.

Right now, she's practically a virgin on the clays course.

Hold on a minute DrBob. Don't go diminishing the great Shelby Cobra by including it with the American muscle cars. The Shelby Cobra is easily a few levels above those you compare it to. I know - I was a street racer to reckon with in the day ('65 GTO trips, close-ratio Muncie no a/c, no ps)and lived to tell about it.

Ted, I don't what you've been smoking re: Superbirds losing to Fords....it's hard to dispute facts but you seem to do it. As for AMC's, I pointed out there's one AMC nut in every crowd and you seem to be it. Rage on.

Dr: A Shelby Cobra is a subset of a major automaker combined with a lesser maker and a 'builder'. It's an offshoot of automotive history, not an entire line of vehicles. But your analogy is good enough - saying a Lefever will hold the candle for American doubles would be like saying the Shelby Cobra is proof that an American car can beat all of the foreign exotics - so why would anyone need to buy a foreign exotic? The answer of course is the Shelby was never produced in enough numbers to offer a cohesive presence, and it had many shortcomings that begged to be improved upon.

If you've ever driven a Shelby you'll find the shifter in your armpit and the lack of even the most minimal soundproofing will have your arm hurting and your head ringing before long.

As for 'firsts', Cadillac had many firsts but I hardly consider them to be the 'go to' car.

My point was that Shelby was an automotive genius who took AC Cars ,hardly a major maunfacturer (Ford supplied parts but had no input as far as I can tell), and designed cars that were innovative at the time, and despite some flaws, still highly desirable today. He just didn't make a lot of them.

Lefever was much the same. The Lefever Arms Co. made well over 50,000 guns before being bought out by Ithaca, who then used the name to mass produce relatively cheap, but sturdy guns which DM Lefever had nothing to do with (he was long dead when the Nitro Special was introduced). To say that Lefever was a non-player, or a "Johnny come lately" in the heyday of the American side by side is just completely false. The thread was about Ameican side by side small bores, so I am not referring to any European "Exotics".

During the time they were co-existent Lefever was highly competetive with L.C. Smith and Parker in terms of high grade guns. Lefever actually made more high grade guns during that period than any of the competetors. Parker was more of a marketer and concentrated production on lower grades guns as did L.C Smith (Hunter Arms). DM Lefever left the company he founded when the "bean counters" insisted on making lower grade guns (the H, I and DS grades) that did not have the features and quality that DM Lefever felt were obligatory on guns he produced.

If you want to use the American Muscle Car an an analogy for American Hammerless Doubles I guess the Lefever would be the GTO. First, undoubtably competetive, and considered by some the best. However, "Best" like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't mean to run down Lefevers in terms of their design or quality - I'm sure they are fine guns. But because they never commanded a market presence they really can't be the defender of the "American gun" reputation - which is how this thread began.

Hi Ho Deano- you never raced a Stutz Bearcat? Did you ever run a GTO (Gran Turisimo Omologatto maybe- like a Camaro IROC is an 'Italian Romeo Out Crusin') how about the series they called "The Judge"- dual quad Holley's or Rochesters- 4:11 Posi-Track, Hurst shifter, Iscandarian cam- the whole "Magilla"--And by the way, those Parker parts you passed on are enroute- in case your GHE 12 skeet gun needs a new spring-- RWTF

Darn it Mike,

Everytime I see that picture, I think of the 32" Sterlingworth in the safe......... with maybe a little tighter grip and a touch higher comb. Yours is a beauty!

Regards,
Ken