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Rev,

Your last picture is priceless......babes in a very tough woods (or garage?).

Sounds like a good start to a good fall is in the works.

Best,
Mark

Thankee Rev- "Ain't No Sunshine When It Rains- or Pains"- I recently bought a Syracuse L.C. Smith O Grade- mfg. aprox 1892 with 30" Damascus barrels- the early roll style extractor, double triggers, three position safety- and the main cocking springs are oriented just as you presented in your "Smoke and Mirrors" fotos herein- I have three 12 gauge pre-1913 "Elsies", and am looking at a fourth- a 1909 Grade 3E 12 (the ONLY gauge for little old me) with ejectors and Hunter One Trigger-if I buy it it will be my first Smith with that feature- and personally, I don't give a Famous Flying Philadelphia Fig which way the mainsprings are set in the sidelocks, as long as it goes "BANG" when I release the safety and hit the trigger-Ask Destry Hoffard-I spend my time and money (love being retired) on "using guns" that fit me and with which I can kill birds in flight, and I don't waste my $ on groups that dwell forever on "How much mustard Sam Hunter's wife put on his bologna sandwich that she packed in his lunch pail back in 1917 in beautiful Fulton, NY. RWTF. If the mechanism works reliably, WTF difference does the metallurgical analysis or the shape of the spring or bridle or sear angle of engagement matter- as Buck Hamlin once told me, "If a spring is gonna break, it will "first shot outta the box"- if its been in the gun for 80 years and hasn't failed, baring a nuclear attack, it will last indefinately- So Be It!!

After 8 pages of discussion of the relative merits of Foxes, LC's and Parkers, and photos of them with blown barrels or with cracked frames, I find no small amount of comfort in the one glaring omission in this dubious hall of shame: Lefever.

If someone has a photo or has heard of a Lefever cracking or blowing up, I would love to see it. Until then, I will go happily into the sunset believing there has never been a finer American gun made than Syracuse Lefevers, and without reservation, will enjoy using them as my daily go-to guns of choice.

In reference to the one post about classics not being up to the job of reliably putting meat on the table, I enjoy killing and eating birds as much as anybody, and I have never had a problem doing it with a Lefever, short chambers or light loads notwithstanding.

Dang it Mark you were supposed to keep all that stuff about Lefevers quiet.

I agree 100%- I had a Syracuse Grade G 12 bore sn 245xxx LeFever as a project gun- needed a stock extension- DT and Extractors and sold it recently to a private party. A pal has a Durston Special 20 with DT and ejectors and he doesn't miss many grouse or woodcock with that sweetheart double-BUT- LeFevers- the original "Uncle Dan" Syracuse gun- NOT the Bowling Green boxlocks, which are as scarce as a case of condoms in a convent, and certainly not the Ithaca owned LeFever guns- Boy Howdy recent gun shows and a beat-up 12 bore LeFever Nitro Special 30" DT at $800.00. When I asked the "dealer" why that price, he said "That's an original LeFever- they only made 400 of then" right- and the Monet print I bought at a "Starving Artists" show is an original too- give me a break--I think Daniel Myron LeFever was a genius, way ahead of his time, but possibly like Ansley Fox- a great shot, brilliant gun designer, but not a J.P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Samuel Insul or any other of the "Robber Barons" of that pre-Trust-Bustin' era-who knew how to make money and keep it--RWTF

Fox, you could have a point.

tim

I shoot an ocassional round of trap with my Lefever EE 12g using 2 1/2 in Vintagers. I average around 22/25 with it, the same as my Beretta 686 with adjustable comb and butt. The only problem I have had is that the gun gets a little hot on the fore end if there isn't a full complement of 5 on the range. I am going to try my DE today. I have to wonder if that Beretta will shoot as well in 100 years.

There are few Lefevers in these parts and those I've seen have been abused. I intend to buy a decent one should it turn up to adorn the pantheon of Elsie, Parker and Fox. I don't know why I've never had a hankering for an Ithaca. Lefever will complete the American classics for me.

The reason you don't hear about Lefevers is that they are not a viable contender. It's a little like when you discuss musclecars and someone always has to pipe up about AMC. Regardless of how good or bad they were, they never had a cohesive product offering and never produced enough to be in the running. Every gun seems different than the next. You can't even find a Lefever expert who can assess a Lefever without a bunch of 'I think's" and "Probably's".

Greg,
Thats a little like saying that the Shelby Cobra wasn't a viable muscle car in the early 60's. They didn't make a whole lot of them, and since each was hand crafted, there are variations. If being the first American Hammerless, the first with ejectors, the first with built in compensating system, among other innovations doesn't count for much I don't know what does. Lefever had a more or less consitent line of guns, with some later additions in the lesser catgories for 30+ years (1884-1916). They were for the most part slightly more expensive than other alternatives out there, but were much better built. If you go by sheer numbers produced you would have to conclude that a Ford Focus is superior to a Porsche 911.