doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Are these really W. & C. Scott Premiers....

HomelessjOe, I like your Scott. Cool gun. I am a sucker for the way they utilized the oakleaf engraving on those old guns, it almost drives me crazy.

tim

Just because I have this picture:

Mike,
dang, dang, DANG. Georgeous, that is a top shelf gun, thanks for posting that picture. These Scott's make my knees week.

Tim

All the Premier's I've saw...maybe 10 has had the shield on top behind the tang.

I currently own two Premiers.

My 12ga Crystal Indicator has the shield on the bottom of the stock. The stockmaker who mades some repairs to the stock believes it was restocked.

My 10ga hammergun has the shield behind the top lever. Currently this gun is with the same stockmaker for some repairs. I'll need to ask, to be sure, but I think he mentioned that he thinks it is the original stock.

My understanding is that the Scott records show that this Imperial Premier was one of a set of three. Two are accounted for.

The 1891 & 1922 W.& C. Scott catalogues both picture the "Premier"gun. The 1891 picture dose not show the position of the shield.The 1922 picture shows the shield behind the top strap. This is an indication that at least on the earlier models position of the shield[Escutcheon] was a personal choice.
Looking at the length of the trigger guard tangs, they are short for a gun with a straight grip. This is an indicates a possible old restock from,semi-pistol grip.This is supported by the fact that all of the sidelock guns pictured in the 1891 catalogue are pictured with semi-pistol grips.
I would agree these guns represent a good potential investment provided that barrel wall thickness is satisfactory,and that chamber length and bores sizes are still in proof.

So; When is a Premier not a Premier? When it isn't marked as a Premier. With the later gun being made to order it wouldn't have the grading marked on it. This is wild conjecture on my part,but it does stand to reason.
I am amazed at how alike those barells appear. The conformity of pattern over the seven year span is impressive.

Mr. Hebbes-

Interesting observation. I have a reprint of a Scott catalog from 1891. Mine shows 2 hammerless Premiers - a back-action, Triplex-Lever-Grip model on page 24, and a bar-action model on page 27.

You can see the shield behind the toplever on the one on page 24.

However, you cannot see it on the model pictured on page 27. If this gun has one, it looks like it must have been in another position. The safety and toplever are also odd. They're different from the gun on pg. 24 and from the other Premiers I've seen. BTW: this gun Scott's first hammerless, bar-action sideock. It's a flat back and not stocked to the fences.

Another thing to note, both of the Premiers in this catalog have fully shaped fences, like the Premiers pictured in one of my previous posts. The Premiers on Gunbroker are not like this.

So, I'm not sure where this leaves us.

BTW: I've seen 3 Premiers with straight grips and long triggerguards - hammer and hammerless guns.

I own the hammergun. The other 2 are a pair auctioned off in 2000. I think Leroy Merz has them now.

I know of one other. It's an early Premier like the one on pg. 24 of the 1891 catalog. Same deal - long triggerguard, shield behind the toplever.


UTAH - I heard that gun was one of three made for a customer in China. The guns were shipped there and somehow made it back to the US. Check out the pheasants - they sure don't look like ringnecks, more like golden pheasants to me.


http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/NDG/Pheas/BRKGolden.html

OWD

Daryl, I new I had the info on the Scott engraver but have only just managed to locate it. Albert Brown was indeed a master engraver, but he was not the artist responsible for the origional designs of birds engraved on Scott guns. The person responsible was; "James Charles Scott, artist, master engraver and partner in the Scott business."
James was a trained artist and was responsible for introducing the bird, oak leaf and scroll used to decorate many of Scotts guns. It is reported that based on a review of existing guns that customers likely had the option to pick and mix engraving design combinations.