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Joined: Nov 2005
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Judge,

You are correct about the tariff. It had a major impact on the Birmingham trade.

Miller,

The process you describe is interesting. The hardest part of understanding the damascus process for me originally was to understand the geometry of the final pattern. Had to play with some clay to finally "get it".

Just a question. If the billet is composed of individual layers, shouldn't there be a candy stripe like effect from the method you describe?

Pete

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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I just hope the boys at Cabelas didn't take him for too hard a ride.


Less than five bills.......

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So did we decide this is wire twist ?

MR you didn't get hurt too bad if you like it....

Don't take offense to what I'm saying just think about it.

Here's something to ponder when you put your eye sight and possibly your life on the line shooting these old guns.

Would you rather take the risk shooting guns 100 year old plus that were originally high quality or take you chance shooting a 100 year old plus original low quality gun that Greener claimed were unsafe when new ?

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From La Chasse Au Fusil An Essay On Shooting (An English adaptation of Marolles' original)
Gervis Francois Magne’ de Marolles 1789
http://books.google.com/books?id=-Q0AAAA...ary_s&cad=0

"The Canons a’ ruban, or ribbon barrels, of the French, resemble very much the English twisted barrels (but are of a different process.)
A plate of iron, about the twelfth part of an inch in thickness, is turned round a mandril, and welded its whole length, in the same manner as a plain barrel. Upon this small and light barrel, which is called the lining (chemise), a stripe of plate iron, about an inch in breadth, and beveled off a the edges, is rolled in a spiral direction, by means of successive beats; this spiral is termed the ribbon, and its thickness much correspond with the part of the barrel it is to constitute. As a ribbon of sufficient length to cover the lining from one end to the other, would be very difficult to manage, it is formed in several pieces, and as soon as one piece is nearly rolled on another is welded to the end of it, and the operation continued until the whole of the lining is covered. The edges are beveled so much, that one edge overlaps the other about a quarter of an inch. When the ribbon is rolled on, the barrel is heated by two or three inches at a time, and the turns of the spiral united to each other and to the lining, by being welded in the same manner as a twisted or a plain barrel. It is afterwards bored so that almost the whole lining is cut out, and scarcely anything left except the ribbon with which it was covered."



p. 43 "An ingenious workman called Barrois, formerly established at Paris, and but lately dead, having considered the estimation in which ribbon barrels were held, invented a new form, which he called wired barrels. His method was this. Upon a thin barrel, forged, filed, and drilled as usual, he rolled, in a spiral direction, and as closely as possible, a tempered iron wire, about the thickness of a crow quill; the first layer covering only the fortified or reinforced part . The turns of the wire were folded to each other, and to the barrel, with a particular composition he kept secret. He then filed the wired part as to render it smooth and bright, but not so much as to weaken it; and applied a second layer of wire, which covered the first, and extended two-thirds of the length of the barrel; the second layer being soldered like the first, he added a third that covered the first two, and reached quite to the muzzle."

Wire Twist refinished by Paul Stevens





The barrels are Plain Twist

Dr. Gaddy's English Skelp example





Dr Gaddy's Belgian Twist or Conons Tordu or Tors Ou Torches



Paying attention this time jOe?




Last edited by revdocdrew; 03/10/09 06:35 PM.
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Daryl, I agree,I am of the opinion that mossyrock,s gun has never been modified.
I have seen guns fitted with origional 10&12.G barrels, but in every case the action was built as 10 G. with the 12.G barrels made to fit the 10.G action.[ still a common practice on modern guns in smaller gauge sizes.]
The 1868 rules of proof,for London and Birmingham show that every gun was to be marked with its nominal gauge. However,the rules show that for example,a 10.G bore, stamped 10, was to be divided into three specific diameters; .775 -.770-.760 [ But not marked on the gun] and that for each measured size, a different proof charge was to be used.In 1888 new rules of proof came into force. This I believe is the date when the rules of proof specified the more commonly encountered numbering system, For example 10.G bore size was restated in the rules as follows.
11=.751 11/1=.763 10=.775 10/1=.784 10/2=.793 inches.
All guns with the above series of marks were chambered for 10.g shells, chamber lengths being at the discretion of the gun maker.
All of the above bore sizes were subjected to exactly the same proof test whether tested in London or Birmingham


Roy Hebbes
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Roy, thanks. That seems to fill out the questions on this gun. A neat gun at a cost of 5 bills, which I hope is hundreds.

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Well, the plot thickens even further. Nine inches in from the breech, the right barrel measures approximately .754". I say approximately because that's as close as I can get it with the tools I have on hand. On Friday, I will hopefully get a better measurement by making a Cerro-safe bore casting

So, any further info based on that preliminary measurement?

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I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject but I was once told by an acquaintance that before the actual term for choke e.g. full, modified etc. were used the above method was used to show amount of choke. A 10 gau. with 11 /12 on the barrels would indicate ( for the sake of argument modified choke (11) and full choke (12). I have a 10 gau. with 11 on one barrel and 12 on the other (modified & full). The same gun is stamped "Not For Ball" which would indicate that the barrels were choked to some degree. FWIW --- John Can.

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Originally Posted By: John Can.
I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject but I was once told by an acquaintance that before the actual term for choke e.g. full, modified etc. were used the above method was used to show amount of choke. A 10 gau. with 11 /12 on the barrels would indicate ( for the sake of argument modified choke (11) and full choke (12). I have a 10 gau. with 11 on one barrel and 12 on the other (modified & full). The same gun is stamped "Not For Ball" which would indicate that the barrels were choked to some degree. FWIW --- John Can.


Now THAT is an interesting theory given that the barrels measure about the same at the bore as they do 9" up the barrel.....

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Mossyrock, I don't share anyone's belief that this gun is unaltered. It may appear in beautiful condition, but you should not trust appearences. There is no reason to believe the proof mark to be incorrect or misunderstood. This gun is out of proof, and there is all the proof you need right in front of your eyes. This accounts for the price you paid. If you want to chance it you can never say you didn't know.

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