March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 829 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,015
Members14,391
Most Online1,258
2 hours ago
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737
Likes: 181
Would anyone have any pre-WWII German examples(Belgian or French as the French occupied the region in early part of the 19th Century) of tubes made of steel from the Bochumer Verein facility in Bochum, Germany, http://www.route-industriekultur.de/en/a...ury-bochum.html ? I know there exist some post WWII examples that have the "Bochumer Verein" stamp just prior to the merging of Bochumer Verein & Krupp in 1966. Sauer used Krupp, http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/konzern/geschichte_grfam_k3.html , I. Meffert used Heinrich Ehrhardt, http://www.rheinmetall-detec.de/index.php?fid=893&lang=3 and others including Meffert may have used other maker's steel. Considering other gunmakers like Simson, whose steel did they use? I'm trying to chase down info on some of the German steel makers in a effort to compile a few paragraphs, which a couple expect this decade, on steel advances in the 19th century. I have additional info on Bochumer Verein if anyone is interested. Many folk think the names Krupp, Ehrhardt, Boehler, etc. made the weapons when they only made the steel and I haven't seen "Bochumer Verein" as a so called gunmaker yet and was curious if any examples existed.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 02/22/09 01:17 PM.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Raimey;
I have a Waffen-Frankonia catalog (The Hunter's Counselor) dated 1964. In it the Sauer models Kim & Royal dbls & the model 3000/3000 Delux drilling all are stated to have bbls made from Special Steel, "Bochumer Verein". Drilling DUR has a "Light Metal Action, Drilling ANT has bbls of Boehler Antinit NG & DURANT has a combination of the later two.
The Simson shotguns/drilling listed simply state "Special Steel".
On the steel specs page is also listed a steel know as "Boehler Special" so hard to say positively from this catalog just what steel the Simson used.
I do not recall seeing anything listed in this catalog with Krupp.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,307
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,307
I have examples of Sauer, Merkel, Simson, (including guns marked Simson, BSW, and Gustloff Werke), Meffert, Griefelt, Emil Nordheim, Haenel, Max Fischer, R. W. S., and Heym all with Krupp barrels marked variously either simply Krupp Essen, Spezial Gewehr Laufstahl, or with a 3 ring Krupp logo or a 4 ring Krupp logo. I have not seen Bochumer Verein nor Rheinmetall barrels on any of my guns. Even the R. W. S. 16 hammer gun is with Krupp barrels, although I recall Raimey mentioning in the past some connection of R. W. S. with Rheinmettal from his research.

I have seen many different types of Krupp, and have seen unmarked German barrels of the period, but not the others. I would assume they were far smaller maker than Krupp, accounting for the far fewer examples.

Good luck, Raimey, with your research. Hope you can nail it down. If you do, a book is in order.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Another Waffenn-Frankonia, this one 1972-73.
Sauer models VIII, Royal & Artemis & 3000 drilling all list; "Läuf aus Krupp-Spezial-(3 ring logo)-Laufstahl".
Simson again just lists; "Läuf aus Spezialstahl"


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737
Likes: 181
ChiefShotgun:

The Meffert-Treff drilling I acquired from you had tubes of Ehrhardt/Rheinmetall steel. The tell-tale sign is a square inside a circle sometimes with Ehrhardt's name. I did omit at least 1 German maker which was Roechling, http://www.roechling.com/en/roechling-group/history.html . Sempert & Krieghoff-Waffen did offer tubes of steel from Boehler(Antinit), Krupp, Roechling(Elektro), Witten and I think Poldi-Antikorrostahl( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kladno - Poldi's original home ). I don't know about a book, but maybe a few paragraphs as a reference.

2-piper:

Thanks for the info/leads. The 3-Ring is going to be Krupp and your references to the "Bochumer Verein" steel is exactly what I'm looking for, but pre-WWII(it may not exist). I've also seen the "Special Steel" and "Spezial Gewerlaufstahl" on Simsons but I can't make the leap to say it is Krupp steel.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 02/22/09 06:38 PM.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,307
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,307
I am glad you can confirm the maker of the barrels on the Meffert drilling. I honestly would not have known what the square inside the circle figure meant even if I had seen it and paid attention to it. I also have a later post war Merkel 201 Luxus grade gun with Boehler steel barrels that I did not include in my list. We see so many unmarked barrels and/or guns from the pre-war German period, it's often very difficult to know exactly who made what. I would never have thought that a maker as large and well known as Griefelt would use Sauer barrels on one of their fine guns, but I have one clearly marked with the SUS intertwined mark in multiple places on the barrels.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Have a Charles Daly Diamond Quality, dated August, 1924, with Rochlings Spezial Steel. The mark of a hammer with a G on the left of it and R on the right appears on top of the breech of each barrel. I do not know the maker of this Daly.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 631
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 631
Not to muddy the water, Jacob Mayer, the founder of B-V was apparently more of a humanatarian than Herr Krupp; perhaps that explains the lack of barrels? Some of Mayer's first steel casting specialities were church bells. Three of which, cast in 1854, still exist today.

In Manchester's book it states Krupp surrupticiously purchased Bochumer in 1958-59. With the purchase, the last Cannon King, Alfried Krupp, became once again the largest steel maker in Europe and one of only 5 billionaires extant in the world. Not too bad considering he had been released from prison for war crimes only 4 years earlier.

Last edited by C. Kofoed; 02/23/09 05:39 PM.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737
Likes: 181
I would say my 1st guess on the Daly would be Sauer, but it would possibly have Krupp tubes. For now, in my mind I can't remember who I have associated with Rochlings Spezial Steel except Sempert & Krieghoff(Ludwig) who worked with Thomas Edison. They had intended to sell weapons and electrical "stuff". But in 1904, as per some sources, S.u.K acquired Val. Chris. Schilling. Ludwig Kreighoff expired in 1924 and his son Heinrich Krieghoff returned to take the reins of the company. "S.u.K." & "S & K" were their marks. Purportedly they supplied restocked German service rifles, or components, to August Schuler. Other sources give Albert & Moritz Schilling & Walter Schilling up to 1914 with Ludwig Bornhoft owning the whole lot in 1920. "V.C.S." was Schillings mark. Continuing a long tanget from the subject, does anyone have any info on Blickensdorfer & Schilling(Charles F.) from either St. Louis, Columbus, Ohio or Lancaster Pennsylavania in the 1870s?

True Jacob Mayer was quite the philanthropist and there was some controversy between BV & Krupp(on page 778 of Manchester's book I think I recall correctly) where at the Paris Expo, which was to rival Britian's previous Expo, Krupp took the center piece/ringer and melted it down to prove it was cast or something. I'll have to find the reference

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 02/23/09 09:09 PM.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 543
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 543
Raimey
I have a C F Schilling St Louis 10 Ga-Too much to type. E-mail
your Phone # and I'll call
Reguards
Bill Mcphail


J W McPhail
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.076s Queries: 36 (0.056s) Memory: 0.8481 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 08:21:47 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS