doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help Identifying proof marks on a French Gun

Here are some better pictures of the proof marks. I posted them in different light so they can be seen better in some pictures than others. Thanks for all the help. I am interested in finding out as much as I can on the gun. I know sometimes it is hard but it is fun none the less.

Pete, the dragon trademark is a new one to me.

Raimey, if you're talking about the mark in an oval, I'm guessing that's where it says "Canon Fanget".

Larry,
Have you ever seen a marking with the soldier with a shield and sword? It is the mark in the upper left corner of the first picture.

I believe "crochet encastre" means that the hook with its base is brased into the action block, like on the Halifax.

With the new pic post I now see 2 of the 3 marks which are the number "65" and the letter "G". The one in the oval I can't make out is just under "ENCASTRE'" on the left tube. Quite odd, but it appears the serial number or assembly number is "65" as found near the lower rib and on the watertable. Then there are the "65" stamps on the flats for the cartridge length which are independent of the assembly numbers and it is that which makes it odd. It could be from the 1920s, it is just difficult to say. But at some point, maybe in 1946, like the Belgians, the weight of the barrels was supposed to be stamped along with the length of the tubes. And Saint Etienne used the "NORMAL" stamp for chamber dims of 65mm and was supposed to be a result of the 1914 International Proof Conference in Brussels. I'm not sure if it was in 1924, 1946 or 1960(kind of doubt it). But post 1962 if a chamber was stretched 5mm or if the weight of the tubes was reduced more than 6%, then the longarm had to experience reproof. What was the patent date on the recoil pad?

Raimey
rse

The gun has 65 stamped on the trigger gaurd, on the forearm metal, and penciled on the gun stock between the two screws that attach the trigger gaurd to the stock, so 65 must be the serial number as well as the chamber length.

The pad is a Jostam Hy-Gun (I think I mistakenly said Hy-bird in my above post)with a patent date of Sep, 20th, 1927.

I can't make the oval out clearly as only the bottom half came out when it was stamped. I know the first letter is M then it looks like the symbol & followed by what looks like P, so tt would be an oval with M&P in it.

I just found on another board that a crown over V was used by England to show that a gun passes proof in their country.

"The "Crown over V" is a view mark which was used from the 19th century up until 1954"

Maybe the two together equal double proofing just as the St Etienne marks do. It is stamped on both barrels just like the French proof marks.

Do not recall a mark with a soldier as on your gun.

Odd that 65 would be the SN, but I don't see another one anywhere else.

I've seen a lot of French doubles with 65MM chambers and no "normal" mark. According to Kennett, it was in effect from 1924-62; however, in the text of that article, he also states that it was an either-or thing--either the chamber length in MM or "normal" if 65MM. Since this one has the 65 stamp, that would mean "normal" was not required.

As for barrel weight, it's stamped on most (maybe all?) post-1924 Belgian guns, but I don't think it's often seen on French guns.

The side plates even have 65 stamped under them. Also the screws have 65 etched into them. There is one 65 mark directly on the right barrel. The 65 which I think refers to 65mm is stamped on both barrel flats by the lugs.

The mark on the upper left of the barrel is the soldier. It is hard to see in pictures. It is a midevil looking soldier with a shield in his right hand while he is leaning on a sword held in his left hand. He has a frock hanging off him similar to the templer one you see in the movies with cross on it. There is no cross though on the soldier in the stamp. He has Qualite stamped to the left of him. Super Bure or Bore to the right of him. Agier Inexplosible below him and something that looks like depose above him. Here is a close up.

With it penciled on the stock, the number on the forend, watertable, underside of the right tube, etc., I would definitely say it is the serial number and as I posted earlier quite curious and possibly 1 of a small handful where the chamber length and serial number were the same. The "65" on the flats is for the chamber only. For now I think the probability to be very near zero for the "Crown" over "V"s stamps to be of British origin.

Where might one find the text by the Kennett cat?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse