doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Identify a Baker, Help

I have beautiful 12 ga.hammerless Baker. Marked "Baker Gun Co" on the left sideplate and "Batavia, N.Y." on the right. It appears to be finely engraved on a case hardened receiver with a duck on the left and a snipe on the right. There is also a pointer on the trigger guard. Pat. Feb.10,91, Oct.13,91 & Aug.23,92 stamped on receiver. The only stamp on the 30" barrel is the serial number. The wood is good figured walnut with rounded butt. The fore end has an ebony tip. Matching serial number is 444B.
The gun is original and damascus barrels have 98-99% coverage. Receiver has faded but shows some coloring. Gun is tight as a drum . I'm new into SxS guns so I would appreciate any information on the model, year of production and value.
Thanks
John

Something like this John?





We really need pics, but this might help you get started until Daryl or Dave come along
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17434920

Very close. On my gun the duck is flying away. Also the name is under the duck. The area where the name is in your photo is additional scroll work on mine. I'll add some photo's on Monday when I'm back in the office and can get some assistance.
We're on the right track.
Thanks,

Those three Patent dates equate to Frank Hollenbeck's Patents No. 446,166; 461,182; and 481,327.

Some of the engraving will vary even in the same model range. It always appeared to me as if they had a some guns with dog scenes a pointer on one side a retreiver on the other side. The there are the ducks, with one flying on one side and the other side has been shot, like Researcher is showing. I have seen pictures with ones that have quails on the locks, but I have not handled them. I have also seen pictures of guns that have 2 dogs on each side. All of these could have been in the A grades or the B grades. The difference in the A and B's is the barrel material. A's are Damascus, B's are Twist. The earlier ser. no.s also seem to have more ornate scroll work on the gun and by the time the guns reached around ser. no. 7000, it became much simpler. The gun that Researcher is showing is an early ser. no. with the style of "Baker Gun Co." engraved as it is. What is the ser. no range of your gun?

The "engraving" on the gun doc pictures and on 444B , I'm sure, is for the most part etching, not engraving cut into the steel. The etching was used on about the first 2900, or so, A and B grades, as well as on other grades.

Is this gun no 444"B"(b as in boy) or is it 4448(eight as in eight ball)? Again always learning something, but the grades of my Bakers do not include the grade in the ser. no. All the parts are ser. no. to each other, so if you have a barrel that is the same no. as the other parts. If there is a "D" on the forearm catch of the barrels, that would tell me the barrels are Damascus and the gun would be an "A" grade. If the forearm catch of the barrels had a "T" that would tell me that they are Twist barrels. Of course, you can tell by looking which type of barrels they are. My earliest "A"/"B" grade is 2112 and there is no designation of grade in the ser. no. Did they do that on the earlier guns?

The actual text from a 1900 issue of The Baker Gunner -- "We do not guarantee that every "B"( or "A") grade gun will be engraved from just the same design, but endeavor to have about the same amount of engraving on each. On receiving an order from a customer we try to select first, one which will fill the specifications as to gauge, weight, length of barrels, drop and length of stock, and then conform to customer's ideas as to engraving , as nearly as possible from guns we may have in stock, but always consider engraving of secondary importance. You may receive a "B" (or "A") with a different design of border, or a duck or a dog in place of the two quail or a dog pointing game, we cannot tell as it is our aim to give a variety of designs."

Dave K, the first poster said his gun was 444 B, and that is how the early A and B were marked. I think the grade marking must have been stopped around the year 1896 or so, and then started again about 10 years later. Why ? I don't know. Early Paragons and higher grades didn't seem to be grade marked at all until 1906 or so, also. Then we see something like PKE for Paragon Krupp Ejector etc. Late A and B grades in the 6000 range seem to show grade markings again like one B I have that is stamped BES for B Grade, ejector, Single trigger.

Around 1906 Baker was bringing out many new and different grades, some for only a year or two. It must have been confusing to try and tell what grade was what without grade marks at this time. So, I think they just started marking grades again at that time and kept doing so until they sold the gunmaking business in 1919.

As to the T, D, S, marks on the hook, you are right. It signified the barrel material. Not all hooks had this mark, but most did. I have also seen H on the hook, but don't know what that means. It would be interesting to have others viewing let us know markings on their guns.

Researcher, you paragraph from 1900 seems to accurately describe the A and B grades. These were stocking guns while Baker advertised the Paragon and higher as "made to order".

The serial number is 444 B. It is stamped on the receiver, the barrel and on the forearm. I would assume that would make it an early gun in one of the ranges.
I'm not sure how to tell the difference between damascus or twist. I can't find anything marked on the barrel. Not even sure which is the most desirable or strongest. The man who had the gun said it was damascus.