doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Francotte 10bore questions? PIC

Yesterday, I received a note from the GriffinHowe research guy and at this point he can't find the production date on the Francotte.


For years looked for an upland ten bore, finally found a Francotte BL Ten Damascus at 7# 12oz. Beautiful condition. Have questions. Can't find the serial number in the Production table, SN is 18572. stamped on the right barrel,trigger guard and the watertable. Not on the forearm iron. Oddly on the left barrel a #19880 is also stamped. Also, the chokes are Right .742(Full) and left at .762(Light Mod). Backwards??? Francotte Chokebores on barrel flat. Not For Ball on both barrels. Bores are bright, so an agressive hand on the left bore might be the culprit on the LM choke or original. There is a very small LD 2 on the watertable and #2 on the forearm iron. Part of a 2 gun set??, "A. Francotte Maker and Patentee London" on the side of the frame. "Anson and Deeleys 3376 Patent" stamped on the standing breech wall. "Von Lengerke & Detmold New York US Agents" on top rib with gold bar preceeding. Beautiful sculpted pattern on the rib. Fine scroll engraving throughout, original case, faded but obvious, clear and distinct damascus pattern.
Second gun. Anyone with the data for a DOM for Wm. Cashmore, Birmingham, BL. SN#20600???
Thanks for your help. Randy

Photo added, anyone with info? Is there a Francotte book?

Randy,

Unfortunately there is no Francotte book, and of course, the company itself is now out of business. G&H can be of great help with some of the guns, but the earliest guns fall outside their records from what has been posted. Early VL&D catalogs are your best bet for determining the model specifics of your gun. Unfortunately the only Francotte catalog repro readily available is not especially relevant to your gun. I have a portion of an 1892 catalog but it is focussed on other models - sorry not to be of more help.

The A&D patent use number in the breech face and the "Not for ball" mark on the barrel flats should narrow the production window pretty tightly. I am away from my proof mark books so I cannot check the exact dates on the "not for ball" specifics, late 1880s to 1890s from memory, but another poster will have the exact date I am sure. The specific A&D patent use number would indicate a gun made sometime in the very late 1880s timeframe.

Looks like a nice gun - congratulation on the acquisition.

Ken

"NON POUR BALLE" or "Not for Ball" was used 1878 – 1897. Basically they were saying the gun has chokes. It was changed to "CH B RAYE" after this date.
http://damascus-barrels.com/bp.html

Pete

The number range of this gun appears on the "Other Useful Information" section of this website.

whats the chamber length....2 7/8ths?
Thats pretty light for a 10 bore eh??
My Greener 12 bore Pigeon gun weighs the same.
All the Francottes I've owned had beautiful rib pattern/filing
"nice one Cyril"
cheers
Franc

I would think that would have been desirable on a gun designed mainly for incoming waterfowl and not "backwards". Just a different setup from the usual double designed for upland hunting with most game going away from you.