doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Crappy Ithaca NID - Let the flames begin !

Not to many pumps aren't durable. They were a repeater for salt of the earth folks.

That said, the problem with a model 12 that I don't like is when they break the firing pin, and it protrudes in the broken position enough to fire a round on closing. Unfortunately, that is a fraction of a second before lockup is complete. It can be, spectacular.

I own a copy of a model 1912. My favorite, however is a model 37. Neither gun was built with solder.
Best,
Ted

The two most elegant pumps in my opinion are a Model 12 16 Ga. & a Remington Model 17.

Ted, could you elaborate on the broken pin scenario--as in where goes the bolt, the gas, etc. when a m12 fires with the bolt out of battery? I've put well over 2500 rounds thru a '41 12 ga skeet, trap, and hunting (my aftermarket-barreled axe with Col. Arms choke tubes that I think so much of) and it aint done it yet. However, the skeet nazi is always looking askance at it and its recently acquired safe companion ('47 plain barrel skeet grade w/ factory Cutts) as if either one is going to do something disastrous any moment. I'm surmising he may have been present for an event of this sort. He himself manages to flinch his way to most of his monotonous 25s with an all-gauge menagerie of 11XXs, and once in a while a 20 ga. 870. Occasionally he'll also show up with an old Baker and miss.

jack

Most durable pumps (just an opinion)

Mod 31 Remington
Mod 97 Winchester
High Standard
Ithaca Mod 37
Stevens 520

I like 870's and 37's but the J.C. Higgins Model 20 (High Standard) is a very good gun.

Post deleted by Run With The Fox

Just a "Dumb" Question I know but how do you get that "Chisel Hardness" on the surface of a piece of 4140 & maintain a "Less Hard Core". By design Case hardening is applied to steels not suceptible to much hardening so that hard case can go over a soft core. To draw 4140 back to a point it would not be "Brittle Hard" would also draw that Chisel Hardness out of the case. Case hardening is not normally applied (For Good Reason) to steels of above about 20 points carbon. 41"40" has 40 points.

I have seen only one model 12 that has suffered the broken firing pin disaster. I need to get over and photograph the gun, as it clearly shows heinous scarring of the receiver internals from the gun firing before lockup was complete. The participants of those festivities are all deceased, but, family still owns the gun and recounts the events of a cold, depression era duck hunting mishap. Grandpa pulled up on a ducky, missed the first shot, and had the gun just about in the final stages of being racked, when it fired again, this time without trigger being pulled, and with recoil spilling the contents out the ejection port. Uncle lost much hearing in left ear for the rest of the day, no other injuries noted. Gun was repaired at home, and is used infrequently to this day. I've never heard of any other designs of pump pulling the same stunt. My father was aware that this condition occured on model 12s, but, had never seen one do that, and his military experience gave him a lot more exposure to model 12 and model 97 Winchesters than I ever will have. A cursory inspection of the gun after use will likely eliminate the possibility of it happening 99.9% of the time.
Of the dangers we face in life, I'm guessing this one is pretty far down on the list. I've actually sold and traded my model 12 off a few times, but, it keeps coming home. No regrets, and lots of fun. It isn't my model 17, but, it's not far off.
Best,
Ted

Amazing....

What jOe said.......