doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com My First Drilling - Questions

My 1913 drilling with a 9.3x72R rifle bbl is marked 8.8mm (.3465" while an 8x58 Sauer one with an 2,07 mark (I know they're not supposed to be dated prior to 1912 but this sure looks like a Feb 1907 date to me) is marked 172,28. As noted these gauge markings were in .010" increments so the 8.8mm would fall within the >.340"<.350" range of the 118/35 gauge.
The 172/28 gauge falls into a >.300"<.310" range & it uses the .318" bullet. These marks are all for the bore size, not including rifling. My two were both proofed for smokeless powser & jacketed bullets. I think that 8.7mm (.3425") is quite common on 9.3's proofed for lead bullets. I agree though, with an 118/35 bore even a .323" 8mm bullet should simply fall through the bore.

Raimey,

The D.R.G.M. number is 71381, not 71331, and here is a good pic of all the markings on the rifle barrel. The serial # is 25721. I hope this helps?



btw - I did say the 3.23 bullet would not enter the muzzle and that is a correct statement, along with the 3.17" measurement. Is the 8x57R-360 round available anywhere? Also, what does the 360 designate?

thanks
binko

2-piper:

Some sources give Suhl as officially commencing tube dating in 1923, but there are some examples prior to that. Suhl, which was set ablaze by Imperial Croats in the 1630s, was re-established in 1891/1893 but there were other exiting proofhouses. Most, but not all, target arms have tube dating beginning around the turn of the 20th Century. So, it isn't all that odd to see a date say from 1903 on. The plug gauge notation ceased circa 1910, although there are some target longarm examples until at least 1911, and the numeric stamp began.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

binko:

I don't know of any loaded rounds but you can purchase the brass and I'm sure someone will make them for you for a price. If I recall correctly the 8x57R-360 is a cartridge based on the British 0.360" Express necked down to either 8.077mm or 8.09mm with an approx. shoulder angle of 15°. Attempts were made to standardize the cartridge in the latter part of the 1920s. The DWM number was 446. I've made some from 0.360" 2 1/4" Express with a 30-40 Krag parent headstamp. But wait until you perform a cast as I'm still perplexed why an 8mm bullet won't pass thru. Is there any sign of sleeving?? Can you tell what the mark is just below the "118/35" stamp?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

No sign of sleeving, and the mark under 118/35 is undistinguishable even using my big eyes with the high mag. lenses. If you could tell me what you think it might be, or give me some choices as to what it could be, maybe that will help me decipher what it actually is. The front of it appears to be a back-slanted lower case "u", or from the other side of the barrel, an italic, lower case "n", but that is just a guess because I don't know what I should be looking for.

I do load, and have a nice 1928, Hollywood, single stage press that looks like it would do 50BMG's, so if can find out what I have here, I'll spring for the dies and cases, and try to find or mold some bullets. I used to really enjoy molding bullets when I was shooting 1000 rds a week of 45acp's. So, I just really need to find out what I need to put this old girl back in service.

I really appreciate all the help...thanks a lot!

binko

binko:

My eyes seem to want to see at least one Sauer "Caveman" logo(1882 trademark w/ registration No. 2), especially on the lower side. And being pure conjecture, the serial number 25721 could possibly fall in the 1890-1893 date range but the Sauer serial numbers aren't truly sequential or linear with respect to time and the longarm could have been manufactured a few years later to concide with the D.R.G.M. number, which narrows the date to a finite time span. I guess I'm a little partial to Sauer and everytime I see a serial number I want to think it's a Sauer. The other mark could be a "Caveman" also, but with 1 pic I can't see it just yet. So, look for a "Caveman" with a "staff".

Regarding cases, Steven Meyer provided me with this site, http://huntingtons.com/cases_horneber.html , for 8X57R-360, but I haven't taken the time to order any just yet.

I did find another exception to the thought that the plug gauge stamp ceased in 1910 which is a Buchel Konkurrenz(competition) longarm by Hans Lechner proofed/proved in March, 1916 with the "172.28" stamp. So as always there were exceptions to the rule. And I also failed to note that 2-piper was correct in that the Zella-Mehlis proofhouse adopted new rules on September 1, 1911 and I believe this was when they began tube dating.

Here's a Sauer Drilling with the "Caveman" with a "Staff" stamp between the Imperial Eagle and "Nitro" stamps at the top on the scattergun tubes. 3rd row of pics, 2nd pic from Cabelas at: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11653 . The stamp I was referring to was a little smaller and had a more portly caveman.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I owned a very nice drilling by R. Reger, of Konigsburg, in 12, 2 1/2" x 12, 2 1/2" over 8 x 57R/360. I sold it and some others, 2 years ago, in order to generate some "Mad Money" for trophy fees on a hunt to the RSA. It will always be one of those which I greatly regret having parted with. It would put 3 shots under a "loonie", at fifty yards, with the iron sights, and 60+ year-old-eyes, off the bench. It would also put a left/right of "OO" into a 9" x 18" rectangle at 20 yards.

There was an excellent article, by John J. Stransky, in the Handloader Magazine, number 139, May-June 1989, page 22, on the history, dimensions, care, and feeding of this cartridge.

If your drilling does indeed turn out to be so chambered, please keep to MILD loads. These old drillings were not engineered for high pressures. Also, the 360 uses the original .318" bullets, not the later .323". I still see Norma, 196 grainers, at gun shows and recently bought two boxes of 100 at $20.00 each!

The case can be made relatively easilly from 9.3 x 72R brass. Also, both brass, bullets, and loaded rounds, are, or at least were, available from Quality Cartridge, PO Box 445, Hollywood, MD 20636, http://www.qual-cart.com.

Since the rifle barrel is clearly gauge marked 118/35 (for a 9,3mm of some sort), yet the rifle muzzle measures in the 8mm range, the barrel has been altered one way or another, most likely by sleeving. The only way to tell what it may be chambered for now is to make a chamber cast, a fairly simple job using "Cerrosafe" available from Brownell's, Midway &etc.

An original barrel in one of the 8mm cartridges of the period this nice Treff was built would be marked 172/28.

And while this one may or may not be chambered for the 8x57R/360, John Stransky's excellent article from Handloader Magazine is shown
==> here. <==

Nice looking drilling, congrats!

Thanks for info Ron, I'll check them out.

binko

A common Drilling calibre is 8 x 57 JR. (If so, don't use 8 x 57 JRS ammo) Sellior & Bellot still make ammo for the old JR. Might be worth seeing if it is for that round. Lagopus.....