doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com C E Overbaugh hammergun

Does anyone have any info on [Charles] C. E. Overbaugh and Co. of New York and maybe Philadelphia ? There was also an Overbaugh and Daly Company. There may be a connection between Sharps and Overbaugh in making Sharps schutzens. Proofmarks on this gun are Crown over crossed pistols and R.S.

Looks like an early Model 2 Sauer. H.A. Lindner, or Georg, may have sourced the parts from Sauer and hired Robert Schlegelmilch to assemble it all. That is if he was old enough to fit the time period. Does the standing breech have a screw and a removeable panel to access the striker springs? Could you give a closer pic of the pin configuration on the left side?

Also on the inside of the lock of Sauer Models 2 & 5 ahead of the mainspring pin a stamp of "Crown" over "EB" which I guess to be either Engelhardt Barthelmes, Ernst Barthelmes(1854-1930? Zella St. Blassi & Zella Mehlis) or Emil Barthelmes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, thanks for the reply. I'll try to answer your questions. Attached are photos of the standing breech, right lock inside and right lock outside. No letters on the inside of the lock. Do you think R.S. would be for Robert Schlegelmilch ? These initials occur on many Daly guns. I would think the time period was in the mid to late 1880s, surely not later than 1892, when proof laws changed.

Mr. Hallquist:


Yeah the lock is very similar to a Model 2 Sauer but the serial number is more like a Lindner/Charles Daly. I now see the screw that holds the firing pin in so it wouldn't have a screw in the standing breech and you confirmed this with a pic. I guess Robert Schlegelmilch because I have seen doubles with Ernst Schlegelmilch's name rolled stamped into the tubes which were carbon copies of Sauers with the 1882 Sauer registered trademark of a caveman and also the serial number was stamped on the left side of the rear lump. So evidently there was some connection between the Sauers and the Schlegelmilchs. Early on many, if not all, of the master gunsmiths made their own guns but they gained some wisdom and decided that the money was as a firearms merchant or retailer and purchased components or arms in the white from the cheapest source. I would guess Schilling but neither Fredrick or Charles Schilling would fit. Fredrick was listed in St. Louis but may have had a shop in Lancaster, Pennsylvania which would have allowed a very good contact/network back to the Schillins of Germany.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Daryl,

Below is are a couple of excerpts that I found via some google searching - r

"Your Sharps rifle serial number 160212 has been located in the original Sharps Rifle Company records of the OLD RELIABLE Bridgeport, Connecticut, plant.

On...March 1, 1879...delivered personally by Mr. Overbaugh to Homer Fisher & Company, Sharps dealer of New York City....Homer Fisher advertized these guns in his (1880)catalogue as the last of the Model 1877."

These records were furnished by the late R.L.Moore,M.D.

"In April 1878 the Sharps Rifle Company delivered the parts for 20 Model 1877 Long-Range rifles to C.E.Overbaugh at his shop on Johns Street, New York City. Overbaugh was to assemble the rifles and return them to Sharps. The rifles were not completed until March 1879....
As assembled, these Model 1877s were classified as Long-Range No. 2s since they have plain wood stock and lack the inscription plate of the No.1. The serial numbers of these 20- Model 1877 rifles assembled by Overbaugh run from 160,212 to 160,240" Sharps Firearms, pp.249-250 by Frank Sellers.

Ken

Also on the "Schlegelmilch Mauser" post by SDH-MT in the Classic Single Barrel section he has a Robert Schlegelmilch with a "RS" stamp. See if it compares to yours. Does it have the Deeley & Edge forend latch with a horn insert in the tip?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here is a little more on Overbaugh from "Sharps Firearms" by Sellers.

Pg 324, talking about the team shooting at Creedmoor, May 27, 1876, "Charles E. Overbaugh(a that time a new employee of the Sharps firm) fired the highest score made to that time at Creedmoor."

Pg 252 "this is one of the "Overbaugh" Schuetzen rilfes. This group of modified Model 1874 rifles was made by Charles E. Overbaugh, a New York City gunsmith, for the New York Central Schuetzen Corps as a special factory order , because the factory did not have the manpower to turn them out themselves."

Pg 241, describing the development of the models 1875 and 1877 "Besides King, the other persons involved were: Richard S. Lawrence, Charles E. Overbaugh and O. A. Zischang."

Daryl,
Here's the RS mark on my Schlegelmilch, Suhl marked, 1898 Mauser which I could have shown you last Sunday. I'm pleased your hoped for crown and pistols mark appeared on th gun.

Beautiful lock BTW, have you compared it with the Golcher?
And for the rest of you, here's a pic of 5' 17" Daryl last Sunny Sunday at one of our recreational shooting matches at Friend Tim's Ranch.

With (I think) the Bently & Playfair sidelock.

Here's the locks of the Overbaugh and the T. Golcher. The Golcher is the upper gun.



Raimey, yes , the hook is the "wide" Lindner type and the forend tip is horn, rather than the metal one on the Golcher. The R.S. looks like the stamp on Steven's rifle, so maybe we are getting somewhere on the Daly/Lindner marks that appear on many Daly barrels.

Thanks to all of you for the historical stuff on Overbaugh. Although the shotgun I have pictured seems to made , in part at least, by Lindner and his subcontractors, Overbaugh seems to have been an accomplished gunsmith, noting Sharps trusted him to "finish up" a number of items in his own shop. His being in the company of Zischang [sp?] in the Sharps shop is interesting. The Golcher and Overbaugh locks are virtually identical and the "final details" on the rest of the guns are more "finish" items than design items.

Golcher #1741, a ten, has the RS mark on the barrels. Golcher #1662, a dainty little sixteen, does not have the RS mark. Both have crossed pistols with crown and wide forend hook.