doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Length of Pull

Hi all, well I'm curious to see what you all say on this subject. Without the use of a proper fitting, which method is, shall we say proper for a self fitting LOP.

1) Crook of the elbow to your trigger finger

2) 1 to 1 1/2" from your thumb to your nose

I have hear both sides of the issue on the above methods. So.....what's your take?

All the best!

Greg

#1 is useful if you intend to shoot the gun with the butt in the crook of your elbow, otherwise it means nothing.(courtesy of JOC)

Otherwise, choose answer #2. I favor 1/2" to 1". It's a personal thing but many people who "need a long LOP" would need less if they were putting the butt where it belongs, in the pocket inside the shoulder muscle. Some put it on the shoulder muscle and some, way out on the bicep. This is wrong for many reasons.

Shorter than ideal is better than longer, so long as your nose isn't getting bumped during recoil. JMO, of course.
If you look at the pictures of the current sporting clays hotshots, nearly all of them have their nose right up very close to their trigger hand.

I'm with Jim but like 1 to 1 1/2. Elbow is no help realy as it dosen't take in the build of your chest. two gals could have the same arm lenght but one be a 32A and the other a 38DD.A good grip will fit both but the stock lenght and toe out will be different.

I think it might also depend on your mounting techinque and style of shooting ie: pass or dove in flight vs. approaching a dog on pint vs. working with a flsuhing dog- also climate and location- if I were hunting "Buurds" in Thomasville GA. with a fine LeFever Optimus 16 bore-I might want a tad longer LOP for that weather and style of gun handling than shooting divers on Long Island Sound in Dec. from a pitchin' layout boat. Also your body structure and preference in hunting gear-just MO of course, but I have studied the Limey style a la Ken Davies in the H&H videos and book-just because I beat-up old Fox and not a matched pair of Royal ejector grades doesn't mean I can't follow what works for our British cousins-- and in the SC segment Kenny-boy was shooting an American Ruger O/U 12 bore with the shiny Stainless Steel receiver alreadt!! RWTF

LOL!!

#2 sounds closer to me also. But, I can take a gun with a 13 1/2" LOP and get 1" of clearance and take a 15" LOP and get the same clearance if I want. "Stock crawling" is a secondary sport in some circles. A good fit isn't just about measurments and clearances, it's also about proper mounting and conformation.

If you're trying to fit yourself or another, or just want to learn more about the subject, I highly recommend Michael Yardley's book "Gunfitting". It's only about 100 pgs but packed with knowledge.

only last week i picked up some new book on shotgunning by a writer i'd never heard of. thumbed thru it and in seconds saw a half page pic showing how to determine the correct LOP by placing the butt in the crook of the elbow, etc. immediately put it back on the shelf as i didn't care about anything else that writer had to say.

i don't think either method is valid. you obviously don't want your thumb hitting your nose on recoil but there's way more to it than that. there are too many factors involved to boil it down to something that simple.

i love the way the literature described a benefit of my fabarms o/u: you can adjust the LOP because the trigger blade is moveable. no, you can't. no matter where you put that trigger, on a pistol gripped gun your right hand pretty much stays put and the "real" LOP stays the same.

there's only 2 ways to determine if a gun fits: shooting (empirical) and fitting (somewhat empirical but also somewhat theoritical). if you can hit with the gun, it fits. if you can't, it might not or it could just be you.

roger

I hesitate t post on this subject since it has sorta been beat to death and all. And, folks seem to get pretty riled up on this subject it seems. But, I disagree with all who posted so far to some extent.

The measurement from the inside of a 90% bend of the elbow to the distal joint of the trigger finger has been a traditional method of getting a STARTING measurement for LOP in many places for many years.

For me, that distance is 14.25 inches. It just so happens that 14.25 inches is a great LOP for me given normal clothing.

Now I am somewhat of a nut about gun fit. I shoot A LOT by most folks standards. And, I have shot a lot for many years including competitively in trap, bunker and sporters. Gun fit ultimately requires tinkering and trial and error to get it just right. But as a STARTING point, the inside of the elbow to the trigger joint is a better measure than any estimate method I know for the LOP.

Flame away.

Regards, Jake

I will disagree with what appears to be the New Wave of how to determine LOP. As far as I am concerned, the elbow method works pretty well. It's not perfect but then no ad hoc measure is perfect.

It only works if you shoot the gun from the crook of your elbow? Well, I guess the #2 method only works if you don't have a long nose or a short thumb.

I am somewhat of a nut about gun fit being far less important than most people seem to think. The human body is wonderfully adjustable and adaptive, especially within a 1" range. If you need a perfectly fitted gun to shoot, you're not much of a shooter.

Give Tiger Woods a 2x4 with black tape wrapped around one end and he could still outgolf any of us here.

Why is LOP the big deal? Kind of a range isn't it-summer to winter? More going on here--comb hgt cheek, thin comb or thick, cast or neutral, toe out, pitch, stance square to the shot or facing.

jack

IMO, Chuck came closest to nailing it. LOP, given in inches, is practically useless for predicting gun fit.

I have 11 shotguns that all fit me perfectly, as I define it. Which is to say, with the exception of my one trap gun, I can mount all of them from the low gun position, to shoot any target (game or clay) presentation with the gun virtually never dragging on my body or clipping my armpit on the one extreme, or hitting my nose with my hand on the other extreme. Each of the 10 guns will shoot exactly to POA with a 50/50 pattern from a dynamic mount. The LOP's vary from 14.25 - 15".

As a way to communicate, we define LOP as the distance from the center of the trigger to the center of the butt. But,as I said, this measurement in inches has little to do with predicting fit, unless you happen to be talking about one gun or guns with identical grip shapes.

Try this....make a fist and place it on the table in front of you. Extend the index finger until the pad just clears the middle finger. Imagine the distance from your index pad to your armpit. Now extend your index finger in stages from this position to full extension and see how that dimension changes. The same thing is at play when you grip a target gun with a tightly radiused pistolgrip and then a game gun with a straightgrip. They can have identical "LOP", yet one can be effectively too short and the other too long. The same is easily seen with guns (Beretta/Browning O/U's, for instance) that have 3-position triggers....moving the trigger definitely changes the measured LOP, but does absolutely nothing to alter gun fit.

The best LOP is not a number; it's the one, through trial and error with a particular gun, that is short enough to virtually eliminate mismounts and long enough to aid consistent eye placement and ,therefore, consistent shot placement. Find that length and you'll also have coincidentally prevented a sore nose.