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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,398 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,398 Likes: 16 |
Found an early Mauser sporter by Rob. Schlegelmilch, Suhl. A M-98 Mauser, paneled and keyed stock, double-set, oct/round ribbed, horn butt, schnable tip, round knob grip and it's all in pieces & parts (I'm touching bluing at this moment). Here's the marks:       This last being an enlargement of a stylized K and looking like some kind of maker's (barrel) mark?!? I know the 7.7 is the bore (slugs about .320"), the R.S. is probably Schleglemilch's mark, the 480 is an assembly number on most all parts, and the crown N is nitro. What I don't know is the E.W., The I, or the K. I assume this is pre WWI? Any ideas? BTW, I've got G. Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks, is there another book I should have? There were some good proof marks articles in Gun Digest, but I don't remember the years? I post pics of the rifle sometime next week. Thanks to all! Steve
Last edited by SDH-MT; 09/13/08 08:17 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
It seems there were several Schlegelmilchs in Suhl who were barrel makers and gunmakers. I can't seem to find a Robert but will check some more books. That number on the bottom looks to be the Commercial Mauser number and if it is the action was made circa 1909.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,398 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,398 Likes: 16 |
If you are looking at the 21143, that is the serial # on all the action parts excepting all of the bolt (bolt, shroud safety) which has #1738 and I would believe has been replaced.
Bob Jones mentions a ? & Schlegelmilch as desirable on his website, and in a conversation with Martin Hagn the other day, he recognized the name as a Suhl maker, but didn't have time to research.
I assume "Suhler-waffefabrik?" means "Gunmakers of Suhl"?
I'll have it all back together next week.
Thanks,
Steve
Last edited by SDH-MT; 09/13/08 11:40 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 624
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 624 |
Thieme & Schlegelmilch made "Nimrod" action (trigger plate) doubles, both guns and rifles.
Was "Rob." the same man as in the partnership?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Several sources give Robert Schlegelmilch(pre-WWI) as being from Meiningen( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiningen ), which was a mining town and from memory I believe Agricola referred to it as Romhildus, and my first guess is that he was also a retailer? Suhl date marks began circa September 1923 and I'd guess this one to fall between 1912 and pre-WWI. The "Crown" beside the "Crown" over "N" is missing the "G" due to wear. Also beside the barrel lug the "Crown" beside the "Crown" over "N" above the "7,7mm" is missing a letter, possibly a "R", "B"(probaby not but isn't "Crown" over "B" found on some Mausers?) or a "G". I've seen/read/heard that the sylized "K" in a jagged circle is the the mark for Krupp steel and I've seen it many times and am just parroting the relationship. Also there was a Reinhard Schlegelmilch, but I believe he was only a stocker just prior to WWII. Let me ponder on the puzzle. The "waffenfabrik" is for weapons factory and here's a site with a little info that show just how interconnected, Funk & all prior to WWI, the Suhl makers/retailers were: http://www.bryndumlund.dk/index.php?id=3 . Kind Regards, Raimey rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 09/14/08 12:58 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 188
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 188 |
I think I know who made my drilling now!
I have a turn-of-the-century german hammerless drilling with no maker's name on it. It does however have the initials "RS" in a couple of places, and "EW" as well on the bottom of the rifle barrel.
Thanks for posting those pictures. One step closer to finding who made my 12x12x9.3*72R drilling.
Thanks,
Lou M
If it weren't for the wonder of electricity, you'd be reading this post by candle light!
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
I guess the "E.W." to be one of the Wagner barrel making boys like Edmund Wagner(Zella St. Blasii or Zella-Mehlis) or Ernst Fritz Wagner of Ernst Fritz Wagner & Company, Suhl. But there was also E. Wahl of the Wahl boys who were master gunsmiths in Zella St. Blasii/Zella Mehlis). Caspar Schlegelmilch, a gun barrel maker in Suhl worked for Ernst Wilhelm Schlegelmilch but I don't think Schlegelmilch would have used his first 2 initials. Too many solutions for not enough equations.
I think the "480" to be Mauser's original number.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 704
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 704 |
These elegant half octagon full ribbed barrels are quite common on German and Austrian sporting rifles and presumably were not outrageously costly. In the 1950s Austrian barrels of this description were imported into the US by Flaig's in Pennsylvania and they were not that much more expensive than round barrels. But today if you want one it has to be cut individually from the blank by one of our top machinist gunsmiths and the price is a couple of thousand bucks.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,398 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,398 Likes: 16 |
LouM, I wouldn't be so sure, but it's a start.
Rainey, the 480 is an assembly number that is stamped on most all of the parts.
Sure would be great to have a book of marks, I've seen one for later German work when they were trying to disguise who was making what. This probable pre-WWI era should be less codified.
Mark, I've got three of these style barrels, current manufacture by Ralph Martini and they are very expensive, but Ralf will make what ever suits the project for scope mounts, sight placement etc.
Hope to have the rifle back together next week for some photos.
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